Frede

Just wanted to pop in to say that I don't regret my $150+ pledge in the slightest, and I will patiently and happily wait however long it takes for this game to come out.

For me, it's a bit hard to take argumentation seriously because we've only seen a fraction of the game. Probably a fraction of the third that's been completed, too. Of course, they're not gonna show off all the good stuff right now. Pope has written countless of times that Mark, especially, doesn't want to spoil anything major. Judging from that, we can probably conclude that anything released prior to the game that is Mark Crowe-approved will be fairly innocuous.
 
I think you're acting like you instantly know how the entire game is going to be just by looking at backgrounds (without characters and, presumably, objects you can interact with) and critiquing an early build which didn't even contain the complete script for the section it showcased. It comes off as more than a bit arrogant. The guy who was pretty much forced to take over as lead programmer on the game (pcj) has stated, like, two or three times that you're only really stirring the pot here. That your fears are unfounded. I don't know what else you want. A piece of paper going "SpaceVenture will NOT be what you fear!" signed by the entire team? 
 
In that light, it becomes more than a little bit annoying to read "Yes, but here's a[n] [hyperbolic adjective] worry of mine that would [hyperbolic verb] the entire game for me!" And to me, it honestly doesn't seem like you're interested in a discussion that goes beyond "Well, yes, Fronzel, you could very well be right". I am trying to reply in a serious fashion, you know. Not just put down your arguments for the fuck of it. You could be right, but in my view, chances are you're not.
 
Ultimately, I suppose it's a "glass half-full, glass half-empty"-type thing. I just choose to be optimistic. Fair enough that some people have become pessimistic due to the delays and their reactions towards the material they've seen, but just remember that:
 
1) It's a crowdfunded game, so it's literally based on goodwill.
 
2) It was pitched as the Guys from Andromeda doing their thing in 2014. Not as Guys from Andromeda pulling a Tim Schafer, Guys from Andromeda looking over the shoulders of Telltale or the AAA companies, or Guys from Andromeda asking the community for advice when every design decision has to be made.
 
Even if it's been 2+ years, I personally pledged to give them a chance. Till they either give up or release the game, that's still my goal. And yes, dammit, I will be popping in here regularly to dish out a bit of vitriol to ensure that people do not forget the two points above.

For me, it's a bit hard to take argumentation seriously because we've only seen a fraction of the game. Probably a fraction of the third that's been completed, too. Of course, they're not gonna show off all the good stuff right now. Pope has written countless of times that Mark, especially, doesn't want to spoil anything major. Judging from that, we can probably conclude that anything released prior to the game that is Mark Crowe-approved will be fairly innocuous.
 
I think you're acting like you instantly know how the entire game is going to be just by looking at backgrounds (without characters and, presumably, objects you can interact with) and critiquing an early build which didn't even contain the complete script for the section it showcased. It comes off as more than a bit arrogant. The guy who was pretty much forced to take over as lead programmer on the game (pcj) has stated, like, two or three times that you're only really stirring the pot here. That your fears are unfounded. I don't know what else you want. A piece of paper going "SpaceVenture will NOT be what you fear!" signed by the entire team? 
 
In that light, it becomes more than a little bit annoying to read "Yes, but here's a[n] [hyperbolic adjective] worry of mine that would [hyperbolic verb] the entire game for me!" And to me, it honestly doesn't seem like you're interested in a discussion that goes beyond "Well, yes, Fronzel, you could very well be right". I am trying to reply in a serious fashion, you know. Not just put down your arguments for the fuck of it. You could be right, but in my view, chances are you're not.
 
Ultimately, I suppose it's a "glass half-full, glass half-empty"-type thing. I just choose to be optimistic. Fair enough that some people have become pessimistic due to the delays and their reactions towards the material they've seen, but just remember that:
 
1) It's a crowdfunded game, so it's literally based on goodwill.
 
2) It was pitched as the Guys from Andromeda doing their thing in 2014. Not as Guys from Andromeda pulling a Tim Schafer, Guys from Andromeda looking over the shoulders of Telltale or the AAA companies, or Guys from Andromeda asking the community for advice when every design decision has to be made.
 
Even if it's been 2+ years, I personally pledged to give them a chance. Till they either give up or release the game, that's still my goal. And yes, dammit, I will be popping in here regularly to dish out a bit of vitriol to ensure that people do not forget the two points above.

For me, it's a bit hard to take argumentation seriously because we've only seen a fraction of the game. Probably a fraction of the third that's been completed, too. Of course, they're not gonna show off all the good stuff right now. Pope has written countless of times that Mark, especially, doesn't want to spoil anything major. Judging from that, we can probably conclude that anything released prior to the game that is Mark Crowe-approved will be fairly innocuous.
 
I think you're acting like you instantly know how the entire game is going to be just by looking at backgrounds (without characters and, presumably, objects you can interact with) and critiquing an early build which didn't even contain the complete script for the section it showcased. It comes off as more than a bit arrogant. The guy who was pretty much forced to take over as lead programmer on the game (pcj) has stated, like, two or three times that you're only really stirring the pot here. That your fears are unfounded. I don't know what else you want. A piece of paper going "SpaceVenture will NOT be what you fear!" signed by the entire team? 
 
In that light, it becomes more than a little bit annoying to read "Yes, but here's a[n] [hyperbolic adjective] worry of mine that would [hyperbolic verb] the entire game for me!" And to me, it honestly doesn't seem like you're interested in a discussion that goes beyond "Well, yes, Fronzel, you could very well be right". I am trying to reply in a serious fashion, you know. Not just put down your arguments for the fuck of it. You could be right, but in my view, chances are you're not.
 
Ultimately, I suppose it's a "glass half-full, glass half-empty"-type thing. I just choose to be optimistic. Fair enough that some people have become pessimistic due to the delays and their reactions towards the material they've seen, but just remember that:
 
1) It's a crowdfunded game, so it's literally based on goodwill.
 
2) It was pitched as the Guys from Andromeda doing their thing in 2014. Not as Guys from Andromeda pulling a Tim Schafer, Guys from Andromeda looking over the shoulders of Telltale or the AAA companies, or Guys from Andromeda asking the community for advice when every design decision has to be made.
 
Even if it's been 2+ years, I personally pledged to give them a chance. Till they either give up or release the game, that's still my goal. And yes, dammit, I will be popping in here regularly to dish out a bit of vitriol to ensure that people do not forget the two points above.

I wanted to comment on this. As someone who's worked on some games (often from scratch) I can say that the criticisms of the demo show a lack of understanding of how bare bones and brutal an early build can be.
 
I'd say the demo is almost a prototype/pre-alpha stage. To judge it at all is foolish. This isn't your AAA "Beta" where the game is more of a demo/release candidate. So even if you feel as though the swipe controls don't work based on what you tried, or they add nothing, keep in mind that at that stage of the development it was probably closer to being a concept than a fully thought out feature. 
 
I think it's best to wait and see how the interface is going to actually be used in the full game before criticizing it. 

Right, the swiping was part of a release from last year, and if you're complaining about it, you're behind the times anyway. If you have a new idea about the issue, by all means bring it out, but at this point you're just beating a dead horse and it's not helping anyone.

Someone felt "raped" by the "patriarchial" swipe controls? "Raped"? Seriously? And does this person even know what patriarchial means? Considering the context in which that word appears, I'm going to go with "no" and combining that with the exquisitely bad taste of throwing rape into the mix, I'd say this is the single most useless piece of "feedback" I have ever laid my eyes on.
 
Take this with a sarcastic grain of salt, but this is how the ever-increasing hyperbole and manipulation in this thread (and in the KS comments, for that matter) make me feel:
 

 
Mea culpa.

@JimmyTwoBucks: Ah. Got it.
 
I rest my case, though. We have a thread for feminism and political correctness in gaming and said "joke" only makes me feel more cynic about the negativity in here. I mean, if Fronzel can't even take the discussion seriously himself, how am I (or TGFA, for that matter) supposed to? I'm not a humourless asshole, but the lines are beginning to blur. Again, have a look at the KS comments. It's a matter of time before someone posts a biblical quote.
 
Also, in response to Fronzel, everyone agreed that there were flaws about the alpha. There was no "high fucking praise" of anything, but there was plenty of "this is gonna be awesome when you weed out the kinks". So, no. You're not gonna find high praise of the swiping, but that may not neccessarily have anything to do with the controls being as big a problem as you're making it out to be.

I went back through that demo thread... I think you're skewing the response to the swiping --
most people seem fine with the concept of swiping, as long as the controls for it are
updated and there is dialogue added telling you to swipe:
 
"I'm ok with the swipe controls so long as there's good visual feedback" - alhazan
"I really like the earlier suggestion for the first screen or two to offer "gameplay tips" in the dialog...swipe in the direction you want it to go..." - audiodane "It's not clear that stuff can be swiped." - Thornado "...the airlock could probably be the perfect spot for a controls tutorial for the swiping." - MusicallyInspired "I think swipes have a potential to open up a load of new puzzle types and/or Easter Eggs if done correctly" - drdrslashvohaul   These quotes you posted are in the same vein... people who are just critiquing the actual controls:   "And also the wipes aren't very intutive“ - tomimt "Swipe controls are a pain“ - Uddasa "The swipe is unintuitive for a mouse on a desktop PC" - shdon "The swiping is realy awkward. [...] So I almost quit playing.“ - Thornado

You're overstating things. I never really had a problem with them in any way, just that there were so many of them.

Honestly, if you want to use a UI from the '90s you should stick with Space Quest. We're going to try new things in SpaceVenture, you should be aware of that.

As soon as people start throwing words like "redemption" (chill out - it's just a game) into the discussion, it's a free-for-all as far as I'm concerned. I would say all those phrases are fairly common, but maybe that's just me.
 
And I think Gareth is spot on. SQ4CD was delivered on time with a set of dreadful timer bugs that I'm sure - despite the advancement of technology being the culprit - could've been picked up in a code review. SQ6 was delivered on time with the solution for a very complicated puzzle cut from the manual without its primary designer being asked, and a crapload of bugs. KQ7 was delivered on time with resource files that were indicating that a sizable chunk of the game had been scrapped at the last possible minute (King Graham being scrapped after he was voiced).
 
Truth be told, I wasn't playing these games back when they were released, but I do know a few bits of Sierra history. If you were to ask someone more knowledgeable like Troels, Rudy or Andrew, the list of examples above would probably be longer. The rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia seem to be messing an awful lot with people's heads here.

Hehe, I say mea culpa a LOT.  That's because I mess up a lot - this is what my parents and my wife tell me, hahah.
 
 
Personally, I liked the swipe functions; I saw it as a new twist in the old adventure game controls - it wasn't done perfectly in the demo, but I liked the idea and concept behind it.  I think they've had the time to work with it more, and because they had a LOT (I'm putting it mildly, I think some people acted as if these swipes were actually punches to the face) of feedback, I bet you they've had time to refine the mechanic.
 
I stil think SpaceVenture looks awesome, and - well, I dunno, maybe as a developer myself I can appreciate the development process and time length - but I feel like this game is going to be pretty cool.  Making an adventure game certainly isn't as easy as it seems, I can tell you that from experience. 
 
Anyway, yeah, my mantra is still SpaceVenture looks Space Quest-y as fuck.  Besides, even my beloved Space Quest III has those STUPID FUCKING ROUND HALLWAYS GODDAMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Bt

They're also pretty self-explanatory... mea culpa refers to Jar Jar Binks talking about his culpa,
and pro bono refers to people who are in agreement with the bulk of what U2's frontman has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

Aren't mea culpa and pro bono pretty common phrases? Like rendez-vous, coup d'etat and schedenfreude? Though to be fair, the person I've seen using them most is Fred, who's European like me. Perhaps it's a Eurotrash thing.
 
One thing I am seeing in the Kickstarter comments are some reasonably legitimate points about deadlines and wasted time (even if they do come wrapped in bile and insult). In that sense, I think it's a good thing that the latest update has admitted to making mistakes (without needing to go into them and inviting more uninformed crap), and then set out a broad road map for what's likely to happen over the next 12 months.
 
What I'm hoping is that this proves that, yes, with Ken Williams' money and whip you get your games "on time"; but with time and patience you get a much more rounded gaming experience.

Space Venture looks Space Quest-y as fuck!! They know what the hell they're doing; it's funny how everyone's turned into armchair game-designers over the years.  I mean, I thought my armchair quarterback Uncle was bad, shouting at the players on the television when they mangle their latest sports games, but people these days in the video gaming world have taken it to an art form.
 
They know what they're doing; Space Venture looks cool as hell to me.  I know, since it's not out, all people can do is speculate - but it's going to be funny to look back on times like these when it's done and out, isn't it?
 
On my end, I think things are looking good - and if they're finishing in 9 months, that is awesome.  It can happen, really - sometimes you have all the stuff; it's just putting it together in the engine. And the development of the "stuff" takes longer than the programming in the engine, generally.
 
 
Bt

Hush! Don't silence the debate!  ;) I can be an asshole if it's just a good-natured jab, right?
 
Seriously, kudos for doing your research. And, unintentionally, proving why everyone really ought to take a deep breath, count to ten and just trust the Two Guys basically because they're the Two Guys.

Hush! Don't silence the debate!  ;) I can be an asshole if it's just a good-natured jab, right?
 
Seriously, kudos for doing your research. And, unintentionally, proving why everyone really ought to take a deep breath, count to ten and just trust the Two Guys basically because they're the Two Guys.

Yeah, the artwork for SpaceVenture does look pretty damn nice. I love how it reminds me of the art from first 4 SQ games, but in much higher resolution and quality. The character art is top notch as well and presonally I do think SV looks much nicer than some other KS funded adventures with similar budgets. Hell, I'd say it won't crumble down in shame in comparision to bigger budget titles with much bigger art crews.

Hush! Don't silence the debate!  ;) I can be an asshole if it's just a good-natured jab, right?
 
Seriously, kudos for doing your research. And, unintentionally, proving why everyone really ought to take a deep breath, count to ten and just trust the Two Guys basically because they're the Two Guys.

Hush! Don't silence the debate!  ;) I can be an asshole if it's just a good-natured jab, right?
 
Seriously, kudos for doing your research. And, unintentionally, proving why everyone really ought to take a deep breath, count to ten and just trust the Two Guys basically because they're the Two Guys.

And finally, a few non-ship shots they've let us see...
Desert planet:
 

 
Equiv from SQ4:
 

 
Inside something alien-looking:
 

 
Equiv from SQ6:
 

 
Landing place:
 

 
Equiv from SQ6:
 

 
Don't know if this is a cutscene or not, but space vehicle:
 

 
 
One thing I noticed while doing this -- with a lot of the shots in SV, the perspective is closer to Ace than the SQ shots are to Roger,
i.e. the "camera" is further away from Roger in SQ... that will most likely mean there are more rooms in SV, as you can't
fit as much of an area in one screen.
 
It looks like the first spaceship thing is going to be bigger than most SQ areas... there are already around 14 screens for it and
we haven't seen every part of the ship yet (unless we're seeing inside multiple ships in some of the shots).
 
I think another big thing to mention is that we haven't seen any of the other characters placed within the game yet,
which will go a long way to making it feel populated and lived in as a world.

Let's see what else they've shown us from the ship that's not in the demo...
Some kind of canteen, with seats, a drinks machine, a menu and shuttered serving thing:
 

 
Equivalent with drinks machine and seats from SQ6:
 

 
Some kind of elevator with water in it:
 

 
SQ6 elevator thing:
 

 
Some kinda missile-loading or maybe trash-ejecting things with lights, etc.:
 

(Can't find a real equivalent to this in the SQ games at the moment...)
 
Toilets! I remember this was released ages ago, so may have changed by now:
 

(Again, can't find a direct equiv in the SQ games...)
 
The infamous pipes room:
 

(I guess any corridor from the SQ games would count as an equivalent...)
 
Another ship scene (not sure if it's a cutscene though):
 

 
I assume this is part of the sewer-system of the ship:
 

 
Equivalent might be something like this location from SQ4 with steps/ladders, etc.:
 

Next:

 
As a room it has quite a lot going on, there is the animation of the crate thing moving backwards with the lights,
a washing line, the sleeping guy, the table full of stuff... bearing in mind it's a storage room rather than a regular room.
 
The equivalent might be something like this from SQ4, simple room with a table, door thing, etc.:
 

 
This is one of my favorite screens and it has a lot of detail in it:
 

 
It's a more detailed version of something like this from SQ4:
 

 
Next, a corridor joining screen thing:
 

 
So something on a ship with different doors would be this from SQ1:
 

 
This is another of my favorite screens, the lab:
 

In which there are several animations going on, the lights in the center and left, the beasties in the tanks, the bubbles, and
the tanks opening...
 

 
There are some scenes in the SQ games with bits of labs, but they tend to be rooms with a lab, shuttle,
all different things put into one room, rather than a specialist specimen lab like this seems to be....
 
And that's the demo... 
So to me, going like-for-like, SV is on track to being in the same vein as the SQ games,
and surpasses them in some cases like with the lab and the close-up scene of the magazine/drill-bits/etc.
 
I don't think they're particularly empty in comparison to the SQ games, which in some cases are emptier,
partially due to graphic limitations if we're talking SQ1-2.
 
I think you also have to bear in mind that the demo is set on a spaceship with corridors, so there aren't
going to be many rugs, potted plants, etc. in corridors, just as there weren't in the SQ games.