Fronzel Neekburm

In that comic strip, shouldn't it be "Lara Croft" and not "Laura"?
 
I hear that "Laura Croft" is the name of a nude model, apparently, according to some, allegedly.
 
I mean I haven't been researching it for the past 45 mins or anything, that's just something
I heard through the grapevine.

Nah, that was just my own hyperbolical way to say that as far as I‘m concerned the thread has run its course. I for one don‘t really have anything else of substance to contribute and I think that both Gareth and I will agree that we‘re just running in circles now. And yeah, while it‘s nice to have the last word, I don‘t think I‘ve done a good enough job at getting my point across so far for me to warrant keeping the discussion going any further. At this point, the thread just frustrates the hell out of me.

Gareth already answered for himself regarding the intention of him calling you "conservative", so I'm going to stay out of that. As for the suggestion - humorous as it is - that we nuke the thread, I do hope you realise the superb irony in you calling out for censorship of a discussion you've helped start and keep alive. 
 
I must confess I've personally given up on the discussion. I find myself unable to come up with anything worthwhile. Gareth has just about said it all. Even if it's partially my fault we got it going again. But I will say that I would've stopped poking you long ago if it wasn't for the "There shall be PC brigade outrage!"-statement you seem to want to slip in every time a particular game - currently the Gabriel Knight remake - is being discussed. You could always argue that I should've looked away to begin with, but there's no reason to post stuff in public if you don't want it to be read (into).
 
I find it curious and more than a bit hypocritical that as soon as you don't get to have the last word, you call for the discussion to be shut down. Which may eventually happen till you bring up another game you think will send the "politically correct" players reeling. I don't really think anyone here gets to have that prerogative; if you don't feel like being challenged for your controversial opinions (which I get, because some discussions just never fucking end), don't flaunt them at every given chance when you know the end result. This is the third or fourth time this escalates.
 
That's just a piece of advice, btw. Not an order for you to shut up. I like to think we're all still getting along despite the obvious differences.

Obscure? Okay, now it's personal.

Odd, the link works fine for me. Maybe try this instead? If that doesn't work either, go to youtube, search for "VIDEODROME (1983) Interviews with David Cronenberg, James Woods, Rick Baker and Deborah Harry", skip to 6:54 and listen to the King of Venereal Horror's words of wisdom.
 
Ahh, the "Broken" movie! Not exactly what I'd call snuff (Doc probably had something more akin to "Saudi Candid Camera" in mind), but a nice bit of transgressive nastiness indeed. The soundtrack of my youth! I remember once showing the "Closer" video in a music lesson (couldn't bring myself to show "Happiness in Slavery" and didn't have access to the internet for the full "Broken" bootleg, unfortunately), out of pure spite for our music teacher, who would always, every single time, nag about what shitty music the students brought along to play. Sure enough, he hated "Closer" and turned the DVD off after about three minutes, talking some shit about "S&M symbolism" and "Who's that supposed to appeal to?". Instead of quietly taking the abuse, I retaliated full force, with stuff along the lines of "This is one of the most important bands of the Nineties!", "Have you ever even HEARD of industrial rock?!", "This is ART, you're just an illiterate if you can't see that!" After some back and forth between me and the teacher, some other students, who've had their favourite songs shat upon during previous lessons, started chiming in "You always hate the music we bring along! You don't even give it a chance!" It led to complete chaos for the rest of the lesson, it was glorious! Those were the days!

I completely forgot about that one. That video alone makes me want to retract my earlier claims (to some extent at least, he still sucks at games).
 
Also, The Fly is pure unadulterated brilliance!

That small knife episode never did bother me on Moebius and I do find it a bit funny that so many people did seem to snort a pea in their nostril because of it. Me disliking the game stems from entirely different things. Hell, I didn't even find it particulary sexist, just stupid where people did cry sexism (like the librararian deduction bit).

Yeah, the Halloween countdowns are spectacular. I'd like to think I'm quite the horror buff myself (my wife and I watch Cronenberg's The Fly every anniversary) but I've never been much into the classic horror films. So it's nice to be educated on the matter without actually having to sit through the films themselves. ;)
 
I also really liked his short-lived series You Know What's Bullshit. The ones on DVD packaging are especially poignant.

Thanks for the exe!
 
I can only agree with MusicallyInspired, this is really cool! Couldn't help but notice that the game is named sq1 for some reason. A subtle hint that you're also secretly working on recreating Space Quest locations in Unity? ;)

Impressive!

This is something little I've been tinkering on. I'm aiming at re-creating the whole mansion as well as the the island surrounding in 3D. The 3rd floor and the roof  is still missing from the mansion itself, but there's already some place holder stuff outside.

This is actually something I've been wanting to do for a good while now. Colonel's Bequest is propably my favourite Roberta Williams game and among my favourite Sierra games in general.
 
Let's hope DropBox let's you stream it. Use WASD and mouse to move. Space jumps.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25945454/cb_mansion/CB_mansion.html
 
Here's a standalone version for Windows. I recommend using a windowed mode, as otherwise you'll need to alt tab out from the app. The web version is upadted to this as well. Now you can walk all the way upstairs with out need to jump on the stairs. You can also go to the attick and Fifi's room. Downstairs you can see the places for secrets doors.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25945454/cb_mansion/bequest.zip

Standalone updated on the first post. Donwload, unzip and preferably run in windowed mode.

I could probably work up some code/engine stuff to throw up there if that sort of stuff interests anyone. Can't speak to the lack of other content really.

I just wanted to chime in unhelpfully and thank those guys'n'gals (you know who you are) who have stepped in to bring some much needed balance to the criticisms in the latest Kickstarter update.
 
It's not that criticism isn't valued. I know the Space Pope reads every single thing and the team are having regular meetings to discuss these as well as game matters. No one's opinions are being ignored. But there's also something to be said for keeping your heads down and staying true to your vision, which is exactly what the Guys are doing.
 
To unnecessarily reiterate, sliding/motion puzzles will NOT be the bread and butter for this game. The demo is NOT to be taken as indication of the final product. The demo was a gift to us backers to show what was going on AT THAT TIME. Anyone who has been involved in a creative process knows how unnerving it is to show a work-in-progress that may have little to no bearing on what the finished product might be -- you hope that people will look at the elements individually and realize it's not a cohesive package yet, and this was exactly the case with the backer alpha demo.
 
Delays in projects are annoying and it's understandable that people are frustrated. Sitting on the sidelines making easy snide comments about what should and shouldn't have been anticipated is just that: easy -- and not helping anything or anyone. Everyone's hindsight is always 20/20. Real life just has a way of never turning out exactly how you planned.

For me, it's a bit hard to take argumentation seriously because we've only seen a fraction of the game. Probably a fraction of the third that's been completed, too. Of course, they're not gonna show off all the good stuff right now. Pope has written countless of times that Mark, especially, doesn't want to spoil anything major. Judging from that, we can probably conclude that anything released prior to the game that is Mark Crowe-approved will be fairly innocuous.
 
I think you're acting like you instantly know how the entire game is going to be just by looking at backgrounds (without characters and, presumably, objects you can interact with) and critiquing an early build which didn't even contain the complete script for the section it showcased. It comes off as more than a bit arrogant. The guy who was pretty much forced to take over as lead programmer on the game (pcj) has stated, like, two or three times that you're only really stirring the pot here. That your fears are unfounded. I don't know what else you want. A piece of paper going "SpaceVenture will NOT be what you fear!" signed by the entire team? 
 
In that light, it becomes more than a little bit annoying to read "Yes, but here's a[n] [hyperbolic adjective] worry of mine that would [hyperbolic verb] the entire game for me!" And to me, it honestly doesn't seem like you're interested in a discussion that goes beyond "Well, yes, Fronzel, you could very well be right". I am trying to reply in a serious fashion, you know. Not just put down your arguments for the fuck of it. You could be right, but in my view, chances are you're not.
 
Ultimately, I suppose it's a "glass half-full, glass half-empty"-type thing. I just choose to be optimistic. Fair enough that some people have become pessimistic due to the delays and their reactions towards the material they've seen, but just remember that:
 
1) It's a crowdfunded game, so it's literally based on goodwill.
 
2) It was pitched as the Guys from Andromeda doing their thing in 2014. Not as Guys from Andromeda pulling a Tim Schafer, Guys from Andromeda looking over the shoulders of Telltale or the AAA companies, or Guys from Andromeda asking the community for advice when every design decision has to be made.
 
Even if it's been 2+ years, I personally pledged to give them a chance. Till they either give up or release the game, that's still my goal. And yes, dammit, I will be popping in here regularly to dish out a bit of vitriol to ensure that people do not forget the two points above.

Thanks, JimmyTwoBucks! This is exactly the kind of discussion I‘m hoping for!
It is. Sorry if I offended you with my remark (I said it before, subtlety isn‘t my thing). You certainly had a point and the screens were very well chosen. The reason I got annoyed is that I felt you (and others) missed the point I was trying to make. It‘s not like this game doesn‘t look Space Quest-y enough (it does), it‘s just that I felt the locations could use some more stuff to liven things up. Putting in a character would normally do, but since the ship is abandoned, you‘ll have to find other ways to make the locations interesting. I think my criticism about empty-looking backgrounds stemmed more from a writing perspective than from an artistic perspective. I looked at the demo and wondered how you could write some remotely funny interactions with those rooms. Imagine Gary Owens intonating in an overly dramatic voice: „You‘re standing in an empty and extremely boring hallway. It is stuffed with crates.“ In the case of the crate corridor, if there is a way to make the location and possible interactions with it interesting, I can‘t think of it. The only thing that matters, however, is that the people who are making this game can think of it.

True... though I think from the demo we don't have a broad enough sense of the game to really judge...
 
We're only really discussing three little puzzles (maybe even just two, as the door one would take 5 seconds with
fixed controls) and I think they took up way more of people's time than they normally would have, due to the controls and lack of instruction.
 
Also, regular adventure game inventory puzzles tend to play out over a far larger area (eg. item on screen 3 is used on screen 24, etc.),
and the demo is only a few screens, so it meant they couldn't showcase lots of inventory puzzles (especially as the demo is
part of the game and not a stand-alone demo), and so it seemed more heavily weighted towards swiping.
 
I think if the demo had one fewer swipe puzzle, then no one would have really made a big deal about it,
and it would be seen as just a nice little variation to add variety to the overall types of puzzles.
It's just people saw the crates AND the cart and are extrapolating that we're going to have to play a sliding puzzle
(like below) every five seconds and that they will make up the majority of the puzzles in the game:
 

 
Now, if that's true and it really is "Sliding Puzzle Venture" then sure, it'll probably get a lot of criticism for it,
but I don't think there is necessarily any reason to assume that it will be loaded with those puzzles.
And there is always the potential for hilarious uses of swipe functions too... 
 
 
I think that's pretty unfair...
When people are making broad criticisms it's helpful to break it down to specifics and to provide some evidence
for the claims, so we can see what we're dealing with and make a more informed judgement.
 
If someone says every scene is empty and that won't make a good game, then let's look at equivalent screenshots
from games we agree are good and see how many objects are in them.
 
If someone hates all the swipe puzzles, let's actually break down how many there were and why people didn't actually like them
and see if there is actually cause for concern.

Pretty sure Fronzel surreptitiously added that one in as a joke, as he credits it to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Sarkeesian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

It won't be - with the swipes they were just trying to extend the old-school adventure game control structure (clicking around on scenes in different modes) with new functionality. Believe me, it's not going to be all dragging around crates.
 
I think the way that Ace and Rooter work together (each with different aspects that make them better to solve a certain puzzle) certainly is something that wasn't seen in the Space Quest games and will definitely add a new twist without alienating the gamers looking for the traditional adventure.

First off, that poster is fucking hilarious. Props.
 
Second, I don't think people are being "hyper defensive" as you claim. If anything... well, we've had this discussion about irony before. Criticism of a criticism is not intended to silence debate. It continues it. Some of the phrasing could have been better, perhaps, but come on. If you want the freedom to disagree with people, you've got to afford them the same courtesy.

"Listening" is a very different concept to "doing exactly as people want", though. If you have faith in something, you should be willing to put your balls on the line for it. Some pretty important people have been plain wrong on a number of things. :)
 
I'm not saying that's specifically the case with regard to swiping (I also didn't care for it), but developers have a much better overarching view of what the game does, what it's supposed to do, and where it's going. There were loads of bugs and problems with the original demo, the fixing of which might make swiping a pretty cool addition feature.
 
Then again, it might not. :P
 
The only experience I have with getting anywhere near close to game developers in the past concerned a soccer simulation in the UK. They were constantly bombarded with requests for certain features and to remove things from their forums. They listened, they refined, but ultimately they stuck with it. A number of years on, the game is much, much better than if they'd simply capitulated to the people who shouted the loudest. At the same time, it's also because they were very, very good at filtering out banal rambling from insightful, well-articulated critique.
 
As a counterpoint, therefore, I'd like to say that I appreciate the informal tone of the updates. I can see how they could come off as insincere, but given the podcasts and other interactions with fans, I don't think that's the case with Chris. (The Troels interview being a perfect example). Perhaps rein it in a little - and proof read! - but otherwise, I'd prefer any tone that's genuine than trying to fit into what you're "supposed" to sound like.
 
Also, I don't feel like being "in the dark", but I do feel like nothing ever gets said in the Kickstarter e-mails. I'm happy with that, knowing what I do through the forums and from reassuring morsels from Troels, PCJ et al. But I can imagine for others that lack of information is becoming worrisome.
 
But, one of the very refreshing things throughout has been the way that failures and problems have been owned up to. The PR failure of the prototypes for example. Cool little gimmicks, but clearly confusing for people who didn't spend their lives on the forums having it all explained. More of that would be welcome, especially as it's clear that development is well below what was originally planned. I'm afraid, PurpleTenticle, I don't see relentless positivity, but then if you were only getting your updates through the Kickstarter update e-mails, I can see where that perception might stem from.
 
So yeah, as Collector says, "pay attention", but don't sacrifice whatever your overarching image is for the sake of short-term PR wins. If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. Just ask yourselves the same questions we ask you, and if you still come to the conclusion your pig-headed, terrible idea is a good one, go for it. ;)

Well, I can understand if he wants to have more interesting things to interact with. I don't think that's an unreasonable request to make. Style or not. I just don't think it's anything to lose faith over.

Earlier I hadn't realized that some of the people posting here were actually working on the game.
 
Anyway, Chris Pope seems like a very warm and capable person. Awesome to have someone so accessible, like he is, as the project spokesperson. I applaud him for all he does. But maybe sometimes someone like Troels, who is a very clear writer on here and seems to be in-the-know and probably understands what backers and fans are wanting out of the updates, could read over and make suggestions to Pope's updates before he sends them out. I would tone down the conversational aspect and increase the professionalism and level of substance. That would also include fixing up (less important) things like basic grammar, etc. I don't have perfect grammar (far from it), but I can assure you that, if I were sending out periodic progress reports to thousands of backers, I would have someone else edit my work.
 
Some of the updates have been downright terrible. (See Apr 1 update, for example) Don't write updates like, "well, hey, buddies, it's time for me to write one of these again. Well, where to begin. There's a lot of exciting news coming up. I don't have anything much to share with you now, but maybe this little animation will hold you over for a while. Maybe I'll get permission next time to share more art. Oh, wait till you see it. I know you'll love it. Bye!" Those get old fast and they feel fake, like the writer is hiding what's going or doesn't even know himself or doesn't want to make the effort to write a decent summary.
 
People feel like they're being kept in the dark. Try to have a list in each update of where all the time was spent in the previous month and always say what is upcoming on the development schedule. Doesn't matter if it's dull. And don't worry about telling jokes all the time. And it's okay if you don't put a positive spin on everything. Please, no more updates that feel like this: "I had to send out something because it was that time of the month, so here it is. Have I gotten to 1000 words yet? Thanks so much for your patience. We are working like mad."
 
Have some consistency in the way you are doing the updates and be sure to show progress from update to update. Give us numbers, percentages, etc. When you keep people largely in the dark about a lot, they will start assuming the worst.