Spikey Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 For those who haven't seen it, Paul Trowe (Replay Games, with Josh/Al doing LSL1VGA on Kickstarter) said this to Ken Allen (former SQ4 composer and about to be interviewed by the Two Guys) on Facebook today: "Ask them a hard question. Ask them why they didn't join up with the folks at Replay Games to create Sierra 2.0 and instead chose some guy they've never heard of, Chris Pope, to run a company they don't own." Thoughts/comments please! Talk about putting the flarx amongst the kjorn. pcj and Frans 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcj Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I was kind of under the impression that they didn't really want a Sierra 2.0. I for one am no fan of corporate overlords. Chris sounds more like a fan at heart at anything (especially listening to his interview with Troels). I don't really know anything about Paul Trowe so nothing against him or his company, but it sounds kind of like sour grapes on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdrslashvohaul Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I did think, however, that with all these kickstarters kicking up that some sort of risk pooling/code sharing umbrella might have been useful. Perhaps the days of needing an AGI or SCI are over, but with those sorts of tools available to all the people in the group, perhaps costs and time could be reduced. I don't know. All I do know is that from looking around at interviews over recent years, it's quite clear that the ex-Sierra guys spend a lot of time bitching about one another. Artists, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith_Pig Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I've felt that both Mark & Scott have shown good grace by not launching a Kick Start just yet. They were obviously aware of all the Kick Starters happening with former colleagues at the helm so didn't want to interfere with their opportunity. I also believe that Mark and Scott probably have something radically different in mind to what replay games are producing which will be essentially a remake of the first Larry (Which is still awesome btw). But this is a new chapter, a new story and a whole new game from the same great imaginations. Chris Pope to me sounds like he's the right guy for the job. I very much enjoyed his second podcast talking with the Danish superfan earlier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfrisby Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I think all this takes is a brief look at Paul Trowe's marketing and person skills. The LSL Kickstarter struggled to find the right fundraising 'tone,' had mind-boggling grammar and formatting mistakes in the released copy, led to initial speculation that Scott and Paul we're working together (false), and many other failures and near-failures as a campaign. While probably "well-intentioned," he doesn't strike me as a strong canidate to revive anything (and I'm very forgiving). I actually lowered my LSL pledge amount after the podcast confirmed, in a way, that Scott had been frustrated by Paul's insinuations -- It's a campaign that did as well as it did by the shear force of Al Lowe and Josh Mandel (who wrote the only good fundraising letter of the Larry campaign). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Pleimert Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 "Ask them a hard question. Ask them why they didn't join up with the folks at Replay Games to create Sierra 2.0 and instead chose some guy they've never heard of, Chris Pope, to run a company they don't own." He asked a hard question, I'll give a hard answer (and this is BY NO MEANS sanctioned by Chris, The Two Guys, or anyone else): Because you suck. I couldn't be more thrilled that Paul Trowe is bringing back Leisure Suit Larry and seems to be genuinely interested in resurrecting the old Sierra classics. But if he thinks he's going to be the next Ken Williams, well, then, fuck him. Frede and Shadowtitus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicallyInspired Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 All I've heard of Paul Trowe are bad things. But I can't talk more about it, I'm afraid. Troels Pleimert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Pleimert Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Really? 'Cos all I've heard is that he rescues orphan children from volcanoes and occasionally does voluntary work for disabled, schizophrenic, hyper-crazed social workers. But really, as long as we're into conjecture territory, I'll say anything goes. ;) Shadowtitus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Pleimert Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 But with all the shit-slinging here, let's not forget about the GOOD things Paul Trowe has done. He DID bring Leisure Suit Larry back from the brink, with Al Lowe AND Josh Mandel on board. That deserves credit. What doesn't deserve credit is his way of going about things, and -- apparently -- slinging his filth at people who won't conform to his expectations. This is me, being diplomatic. pcj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfrisby Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Really? 'Cos all I've heard is that he rescues orphan children from volcanoes and occasionally does voluntary work for disabled, schizophrenic, hyper-crazed social workers. But really, as long as we're into conjecture territory, I'll say anything goes. ;) I feel sort of bad for editing out a line about me "putting money on him being an out-of-control possible boring drug-addict" above :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frans Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I've felt that both Mark & Scott have shown good grace by not launching a Kick Start just yet. They were obviously aware of all the Kick Starters happening with former colleagues at the helm so didn't want to interfere with their opportunity. Really? In the world I live in people would say they're not starting a Kickstart BECAUSE of the other colleagues and that they know it'll hurt their chances if they would join right now. But that's just me as a company owner talking, I guess. Really? 'Cos all I've heard is that he rescues orphan children... Stop right there pall, you're under arrest! Orphan children? Pa-lee-ze! That excuse is so 1980 :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decaffeinated Jedi Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 In the midst of an overwhelmingly positive outpouring of support for classic adventure games, the revival of long-dormant fan communities, and the return of beloved creators to the limelight, it's really a shame to see that kind of negativity directed toward the Two Guys for a decision that was entirely their own to make. Jess Troels Pleimert, Monolith_Pig and Frede 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Pleimert Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 In the midst of an overwhelmingly positive outpouring of support for classic adventure games, the revival of long-dormant fan communities, and the return of beloved creators to the limelight, it's really a shame to see that kind of negativity directed toward the Two Guys for a decision that was entirely their own to make. Jess This just goes to show, you can always count on Jess to provide the level-headed opinion without succumbing to personal hyperbole. Monolith_Pig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicallyInspired Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I must have missed something. Who's saying negative things about the Two Guys' decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frans Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Ja, well. I kinda missed out on all that "negativity towards the Two Guys" myself, to be honest. I guess I'm missing the point. My bad, of course. People are watching this thing like a hawk, aren't they? Let's just wait for some more information before we "pledge" anything, before we start sugar coat stuff that don't need any and before we conclude anything from a facebook comment, that emotions aside, sounds like a pretty solid question to me. I don't want to be the party pooper, guys. But we are not the 15 year old Ja Sayers anymore, are we? People worry about the SpaceVenture, I'm guessing, mainly BECAUSE there's no information available. I'm just guessing, mind. Mainly 'cause I'm hungry for more myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicallyInspired Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Still missing something. Who's worried about SpaceVenture, besides obviously (now that I see) you? I thought we were talking about Paul Trowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frede Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Paul Trowe's bitterness makes it perfectly clear why the Two Guys shouldn't want to take part in Sierra 2.0. That infamous Scott Murphy-interview - the one Mark Crowe ended up reading prior to their reconciliation - included some very candid stuff about how Ken Williams practically shoved the point-'n'-click interface down their throats for SQ4. They wanted to do another parser game. In this day and age, Scott and Mark don't need Ken Williams, Paul Trowe or some suit from Activision breathing down their necks and potentially stifling their creativity. They can finally retain total control over their upcoming products. I don't want to disrespect Al or Josh, but if I were a developer, I would go for Scott and Mark's approach. Troels Pleimert and Frans 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troels Pleimert Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'm not for mudslinging myself -- I'd like to think those days are past me -- but Paul's remarks against Chris Pope just struck me as being a tad disrespectful. Frede, pcj and Shadowtitus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collector Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 There has been a lot of negative remarks about the various Kickstarter projects on a number of forums. Usually these are because of some odd misperceptions. Some have whined that these projects were stealing funding from new developers. Someone thought that Jane Jensen should not have here own company because she needs a boss to keep her from being lazy. Yet another accused Al and Josh of holding content hostage because they promised to use any extra funds over the Kickstarter goal to add extra content to the game. I suspect that some have become spoiled by the free fan games. I even read one post by someone that was outraged that the Double Fine game wasn't going to be free. There are a lot of entitled whiney little twits out there. MusicallyInspired 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfrisby Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Definitely wasn't trying to say anything bad about Spaceventure -- only felt that Paul Trowe was a little bit iffy for his comments, and overall.. Doesn't really over-shadow the good he's doing, but still. Along with the letter/update he wrote a few days back, I have to say Josh Mandel has the right tone / fundraising-speak-style and best pitches from their campaign -- great closing video sends folks to Jane & the Two Guys when they launch: Monolith_Pig and pcj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnathon Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Don't really know much about anything that's going on with this, and I will resist the urge to place this scenario within one of those metaphorical 'boxes' I have collected, so that I can scrutinize it, despite that to me it seems all too classic of a scenario. Enough rambling. I will say this much: everything about the Two Guys, what they've done, what they're doing (and the way they're doing it), and what they can do is reason for excitement and anticipation of great things. Their spoken as well as unspoken language shines of true artistic desire and ability, and for the implied reasons which can make something like game designing so great. I believe them to be very inspired for what they've set out to do, and their actions speak to me that they have something great up their sleeves. They've got moxie. I find this to be one of those scenarios where another's criticism speaks even more of the victims' potential and ability to be envied than it does of the offender's incompetence. In other words, I suppose I could say to Mr. Trowe, "because they have the choice and they can do what they see fit with it, with or without your understanding or approval of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikey Posted May 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I tried to keep my own opinion kind of quiet, because I know a lot of people involved with this, but I agree with nearly 100% of what has been said. great posts. And Jess (Jedi) did sum it up perfectly. Kudos, Jess, and as FM80 said in another thread, please revive "Apropos of Something". Probably the only thing I can say in regret that they didn't build a super-company is that perhaps Space Quest would be under that umbrella, rather than starting on something new. But perhaps it is still an option if SpaceVenture is a success. I guess if we don't like how it turns out, we can always get in the timepod and go back to the Space Quest VII time period, right? ;) EDIT: I will also say that as much as I admire Paul Trowe's vision, I don't like his divisive remarks, and I can see what someone said about a "Ken Williams" complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFriedOrat Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I believe no matter what happens we are both going to have some great and wonderful games (on both sides!). Whether or not "The Two Guys" join up with Replay Games Inc. or not, I am absolutely excited to see some creativity on both parties!!! Truthfully, I would love to see a Sierra 2.0 (I mean who wouldn't??) ;) , but no matter what it's a great time be a die-hard adventure gamer! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicallyInspired Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 In this day and age, Scott and Mark don't need Ken Williams, Paul Trowe or some suit from Activision breathing down their necks and potentially stifling their creativity. They can finally retain total control over their upcoming products. I don't want to disrespect Al or Josh, but if I were a developer, I would go for Scott and Mark's approach. Paul Trowe has nothing to do with ActiVision, aside from the fact that he's trying to get the old Sierra IP licenses from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith_Pig Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s96/tomlee80/PaulTrowe.jpg And still he continues.... In all honesty I never saw the orginal Paul Trowe comment on Kens personal facebook page, seems Ken might have deleted it :) But still Paul persues a response - even though the Sierra Alums page is open to a number of Sierra fans like myself. Too bad, it shows Paul Trowe up in a pretty bad light. He is blissfully ignorent to this thread and I think we should keep it like this. I'm pretty sure all the other ex-Sierra/replay team think he's being a massive douche. Kudos to Josh for telling Ken Allen to do the music for this game. I'd love that too! pcj and MusicallyInspired 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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