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Paul Trowe criticism on Kickstarter update

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I'll just have to show my support for Al and Josh some other way.

Al's got a tip jar on his website. Maybe use that? I don't think calling for an organized boycott helps the situation at all, but giving people a heads up on the antics isn't a bad idea.

 

Speaking of SpaceVenture... who's looking forward to hearing how things are really going? :D

I am!

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@PurpleTentacle

 

I'd agree with you, were it not for the fact that this bunch of people you mentioned pumped - literally! - thousands of dollars into the game, worked as moderators for Replay and did all sorts of free labor (artworks, beta testing and such). All that rewarded with a great big "Fuck you!", just because they dared to point out that someone is making a complete ass of himself. (Bear in mind that I consider myself mostly a neural party in this. Yes, I was also thrown out of the forum - presumably because I posted an animated gif of a guy munching on a bag of popcorn (!) - but I was nowhere near as involved in either the forums or the actual game as most of the other banned parties were.) Imagine if you had been the one who basically had given a year of his life to the project. Wouldn't you agree that this goes quite a bit beyond bruised egos and delves into the realm of, shall we say, exploitation?

 

What Paul did (ban a bunch of people unnecessarily from the forum and trash another project)

That and, you know,...

 

- threatening Wisecrack with a lawsuit even though they had Al's permission

- causing a shitstorm obout this in the gaming press, claiming that it was Al who wants to sue

- impersonating Josh in one of the updates

- attempting to sabotage other people's kickstarters

- revealing rather intimate details about Scott Murphy's private life in this very forum in some desperate attempt to make himself look good

- leaking other companies' delicate information to the press

- the numerous instances of cyber-bullying

 

and so on and so forth. I agree about the inappropriate and rude part, though.

 

As for news about these recent developments hitting the Steam forums: Since it was the community who is basically responsible for getting this game on Steam in the first place (via the greenlighting process), I'd call it a classic case of poetic justice. Still, I had hoped that this would happen in a somewhat more refined and articulate way. People deserve to know what's going on, but I'm afraid just pasting a link to these forums might do more harm than good. But it looks like it's been removed anyway.

 

Sorry for not letting this topic rest (as I had promised earlier), but like I said a few pages ago: people ought to know why this is a big deal.

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Fronzel is right. The people that Paul banned were people who donated their blood, sweat and tears to the game. They donated tens of thousands of dollars worth of cash, free labor, free promotions, moderating and trying to make himself better by making everyone else look worse. I know for a fact that Tom King himself did several months of programming and debugging. That's the kind of thing they pay programmers $5,000+ a month for.

 

It boils down to ethics. How you present yourself as a person reflects on the company. I myself didn't even get an official reason for being banned. I just was. I mean c'mon -- you're saying "well, he didn't kill anyone". No, but he tried to destroy one project then proceeded to try to rip SpaceVenture because Scott and Mark didn't join up with ReplayGames. Everything he did was to screw over other people and help himself.

 

Paul should not be given a pass on this. There's no reason for us to give it to him. Josh saw fit enough to leave. Al should design the next game without Paul. The one thing we don't need is a small Larry wannabe trying to hurt other adventure games in the series. When you talk about hurting the Larry franchise, what you don't take into account is that Paul is trying to hurt other adventure games franchises that we love. So sometimes it's a trade off, and we all know Spock's saying in Star Trek II, where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

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I agree; Replay Games have suffered enough. The people that put all this hard work into making LSL:R should not be punished for what one person did all on his own and against the advice of those close to him.

 

I think the petition to inform CodeMasters not to let Paul near the license again is the way to go, and I hope Replay somehow sort themselves out, regroups and come out on top after this.

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Yes please still buy the game there are still a lot of great folks working under the Replay and NFusion banners that deserve the recognition and a game that is doing well..

 

I'm really looking forward to the SV news SpaceVenture is one of my most anticipated games.

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Ok, here's the thing...

 

Paul seems like a first-rate dick. I could never imagine working under him, nor would I ever want to. Paul deserves all the bashing he is getting, and I'm happy to join in. He seems like an underhanded snake the way he has anonymously trolled (allegedly!) other projects to hurt them. I would gladly campaign to keep him from having involvement in the next Larry adventure.

 

Yes, bash Paul. But I would just hate the bashing to target the game itself.

 

Ok, and here is where I say some things that some people might not like, but I'm going to say it. Yes, Paul went way overboard in (allegedly) banning and deleting people's posts. He seems like a petty tyrant and a troll and a child. I was one of those people who got banned. But here's the thing... Paul isn't the only one who had ever allegedly gotten heavy handed or threatened forum banning over repeated critical comments of design choices (which were ironically deemed, by people now wanting nothing to do with Paul, "relentless attacks on Paul."). But all that is over and done with. Not everyone moderating the Replay forum was always an angel, and I don't think dramatically playing a martyr for too long is necessary.

 

Moving forward, I would say that it's great people are supportive of the Two Guys and want to cut them slack over possible problems, but I hope there isn't too much "circling of the wagons" to any criticism that might come up to the point of trying cast out those who express even the same concerns Paul has. I know that people like Tomint and Frogacuda have on various forums expressed legitimate concerns about the progress of SV, and I think we should remember that it's ok to air those honest concerns and that it doesn't mean they are "attacking" or any less of a fan.

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I do agree, but I also agree with Steve that Paul should not get a pass on this. Paul is the CEO of a game company while the moderators are volunteers. It's incredibly difficult to hold the latter accountable for rotten behaviour, but the former is in a position where you just don't get to pull crap like this.

 

I still think this should be handled in the most civil manner possible. But that said, it's too dangerous to just go "Eh, it happened. It won't happen again". We did last time around, after Paul's apology, and the Kickstarter sabotage quietly went on in the background. And clearly it was just a matter of time before Paul came out of his hole to spread more nastiness.

 

There's a difference between taking the high road and being overly forgiving. Even if people were acting like martyrs, which I don't think they are, Paul doesn't deserve the latter. We thought he did the first time around, but now the ship has sailed and it's borderline proven that Paul will betray one's trust and abuse it to hurt other projects.

 

I still firmly support the petition and/or joint letter that has been proposed in here by several posters. As far as I know, this is still happening, which is a good thing. Because if you've been following this closely, including the Kickstarter sabotage problems, you'll know that this is absolutely neccessary.

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I hope there isn't too much "circling of the wagons" to any criticism that might come up to the point of trying cast out those who express even the same concerns Paul has. I know that people like Tomint and Frogacuda have on various forums expressed legitimate concerns about the progress of SV, and I think we should remember that it's ok to air those honest concerns and that it doesn't mean they are "attacking" or any less of a fan.

There's a world of difference between expressing honest concerns and saying "they obviously ran out of money" when all you have to go on is a job ad and an update (Oct 1) with less info in it that you would have liked.

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Ok, I'm going to make a executive decision here and stop this before it goes any further. I think Paul has dug enough of his own grave. I don't believe this needs to go any further and I'm sure many of you agree with me. I don't want this place turning into Paul Trowe bashing central and I don't want this to be the place where worse news potentially breaks. I moreso like the higher road we've taken thus far and don't want to start resorting to slander. Mostly because its unnecessary. So I'm deleting posts associated with....that. Let's keep this in good form, guys. No hard feelings and nothing personal, I just don't think this forum needs THAT kind of attention. Please don't bring *that* topic up again here. If you want to talk about it please find somewhere else to do so. I don't feel right about this place being the place that people.....discover things. Especially seeing as this doubles (for the moment) as the Two Guys' official forum for SpaceVenture and their company.

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Yeah, you know this thread has run its course anyway, I think. I'm going to lock it now because everything that can be said has been said and anything more is just going to turn down dark corners we don't need to take. We don't usually lock threads or delete posts in this forum, but in this rare case I think it's warranted.

 

Here's the thread for the latest SpaceVenture update!

 

http://www.spaceques...iticism-thread/

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