Stellar vs. Beatrice

[pcj]

I don't know whether I should be proud or horrified that this discussion partly arose because of the way Bea was interpreted in two fangames I worked on. If you find Bea "borderline psychotic" in VSB or SQInc, just be happy it's not, and will never be, canon. Bea was portrayed in SQV, and that's her only authorised appearance.

Well, that and the fact that Roger was hanging out with Latex Babes by SQX suggests that their marriage didn't work out too well, for one reason or another. The arguments that VSB and Inc make seem as valid as any other in that context.

[PurpleTentacle]

This is probably the dumbest thing I've read today; pardon my bluntness. Are you actually suggesting that we shouldn't care about racism, sexism, bigotry or homophobia? To me, writing "big four of BS" about these topics is just self-servingly ignorant.Don't get me wrong. I'm not intent on upholding some PC standard for behavior or to encourage self-censorship in any way. I'm just going to reiterate the point that I already quoted Carlin on in the "damsel in distress" post, which is that it's the intent behind a statement that's offensive, not the words or wordings themselves. Your "intent" here, however, seems to be that anyone who decries racism, sexism, bigotry or homophobia is by default trying to control your thoughts and force you to conform to a certain world view.Not so. You can tell me a racist joke if you're not racist, because I know it's not coming from a prejudiced mind. You can tell me a sexist joke or a gay joke, too, if you fundamentally believe in gender equality or gay rights. If you don't, however, and tell me a joke on either of these anyway, I'm going to assume that you're just a bigoted a-hole who thinks it's funny to pick on people different than yourself.

I thought Steve's comments were excellent. Obviously he is referring to a politically correct double standard; for example, why has "anti-sexism" become anti-male? The politically correct standards are not applied equally.

 

And who gets to determine someone's "intent" behind a comment, anyway? Are we reading minds here?

[Troels Pleimert]

I thought Steve's comments were excellent. Obviously he is referring to a politically correct double standard; for example, why has "anti-sexism" become anti-male?

It hasn't. Show me where.

 

The politically correct standards are not applied equally.

Where is this committee of politically correct standards and why aren't they doing their job?

 

All kidding aside, show me where.

 

And who gets to determine someone's "intent" behind a comment, anyway? Are we reading minds here?

The person making the comments does.

[PurpleTentacle]

Troels, start with this excellent book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0684849577?pc_redir=1399183830&robot_redir=1

[Frede]

I can partly agree with you, because I have sort of become anti-feminist myself. I do not deny that there are many sensible men and women who identify as feminists whom I agree with. I'm very much pro-equality myself. But there are radical feminists out there who are, among other things, advocating castration of men because... well, they're men. I think the less radical feminists should go for another name.

 

On an etymologic level, I don't think "feminism" sounds like something that's about equality. It sounds like positive discrimination towards females. No one in their right mind would advocate this and I know many feminists who don't, but I think that word is spent. Pro-equality people need another label.

 

But that's where my agreement with you guys stop, because I think your shots are way too scattered and by now you're calling everyone who disagrees with you PC by now. Like Gareth, it amuses me that you're continually getting offended at the idea that sometimes - just sometimes - shutting up is a wise option. You do so without hesitation while decrying that fact that something you write can and probably will offend other people. Pick your battles. And I mean... holy shit, have you heard Gareth in action as Pete Toleman? Have you heard Troels' podcast? Have you seen the stuff he writes on Twitter? These guys are not exactly pro-politically correctness. They seem more like pro-common sense to me, without losing their respective senses of fun.

 

EDIT: And before someone raises their finger and calls me a PC policeman, I just want to point out yet again that I am definitely not a feminist, and that my views on women in entertainment can best be described by this Frank Zappa quote:

 

A young lady has ah, felt that ah, my treatment of women in my lyrics and social comments has not been particularly positive. And ah, there's no reason why it should be. You should take your lumps along with everybody else because women do stupid fucking things, just like the guys do. And if I say guys are stupid and a woman does something stupid, don't be a whimp [sic] about it, just because you got that thing between your legs is no problem.  

 

Also, since "Roseanne" was brought up, I find it amusing that you neglect to mention how often the women on that show were the butts of the jokes. I remember (it's Denmark - we didn't and don't get many funny shows over here so bear with me, please) one particular episode that revolved around Roseanne's PMS. An affliction that's, according to those unfortunate enough to suffer from it, not very funny. Okay, we're not talking about a 1:1 ratio here. Dan was probably the butt of jokes most often. But don't pretend "Roseanne" was a hyper-feminist show in which the female protagonist ran around cutting men's balls off. You know damn well it wasn't.

[PurpleTentacle]

Like Gareth, it amuses me that you're continually getting offended at the idea that sometimes - just sometimes - shutting up is a wise option.

I don't like the idea of telling anyone to shut up just because you don't agree with them.

 

Using the tired "bigot!" and "racist!" and "sexist!" charges against people who don't agree with you is often just a way of attempting to silence/censor others and render their points not worthy of consideration. It's a way to toxify people.

[Frede]

I usually don't, except if the people in question are being bigots, racists or sexists. You seem to agree with me that some points of view transcend mere opinions and become suppressing. Why does that only work one way?

[pcj]

How do we keep getting on this subject? (Who knew that Space Quest fans were so polarized on the subject of feminism and political correctness?)

 

Can we try to keep it on-topic here please? There is already a thread for the feminism and political correctness topic.

[Troels Pleimert]

PCJ is right. I apologize for letting myself get suckered into this. It is a hot-button issue and we all have very strong opinions about it. But it has its place and I think I've made my point. I'm out.

 

For what it's worth, I also apologize for calling your statement dumb. It was a knee-jerk reaction. I still think you're wrong and your point of view saddens me, but that's my opinion.

[Decaffeinated Jedi]

PCJ is right.

 

You're gonna let the PCJ Police boss you around? ;)

[Irishmile]

So... seriously though... how does everyone feel on the Judge Judy topic?