Is it worth playing...

[tomimt]

Yes, the gnome puzzle is optional, as if you answer wrong you'll get a key you can use to unlock a door that has a ramp which leads to the giant.

The big three puzzles, getting the shield, mirror and the chest, have multiple solutions, which is very clever. KQ1 has a lot of design elements which were sadly dropped from adventure game development, but I think that has more to do with how difficult it is to design such open puzzles, especially when the games themselves are more and more difficult and costly to produce.

What was really fun back in the day with KQ1 was to try to find out the optimal ways of doing the puzzles. Though the unfair gnome's name puzzle made that pretty difficult, unless you knew the answer.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

Also, how did the gnome manage to get through life with a name like "Ifnkovhgroghprm"?

How is that even pronounced?

[tomimt]

I'd go and pronounce it something like this: Aivn-kovh-grogh-prem
It's clearly a name from some dead language.

[Frede]

Actually, it's about ethics in games journalism.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

"Ifnkovhgroghprm"?

Sounds Welsh.

[Capn_Ascii]

I know it's unfair to judge it too harshly as they were inventing the genre by the seat of their pants at the time

 

KQ1 really is one of the most open adventure games there is. It's interesting just because it was not only the mother of animated adventure games, but because its approach on the world and puzzle design. It is open world, small, but still you can go almost everywhere immediatly. You can pick up a lot of stufff, some just for points, but some can be used to solve multiple puzzles.

 

 

See, the thing is, they weren't. The reason KQ1 is designed that way is because its direct predecessors - interactive fiction games - were done the same way. Look at games like Zork...basically just glorified scavanger hunts (just like KQ1). Lots of places to explore right away, with the challenge being to figure out how to interact with those areas to accomplish your goals (just like KQ1). 'Enemy' NPCs that show up randomly and without warning to give a sense of danger (just like KQ1). KQ1 was practically a carbon copy of early IF games, but like that genre, Sierra's own game design evolved beyond that design philosophy before long.

 

I was really surprised that some items like the diamonds, egg, walnut did not have specific uses.

I was like, "yesss, I have the diamonds, now I get to complete some puzzle somewhere else with them

and progress!" Nope, they stayed in my pocket the whole time.

 

 

 

Treasure! Another element carried over from the early IF days. Sure it's pointless puzzle-wise, but it's the early adventure game's concept of 100-percent completion. Gotta find 'em all! ...and not lose them to that thieving dwarf. Bastard. :angry:

 

Also, how did the gnome manage to get through life with a name like "Ifnkovhgroghprm"?

How is that even pronounced?

 

 

It's pronounced "HAY-bah-dee-FAH-que".

[tomimt]

I do recall most of the treasure items can be actually used to solve at least one specific puzzle. It won't give you max poinst, but it will get you past that point if you don't have the max point item.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

YYYYEEEESSSS, I JUST FINISHED THE ORIGINAL KQ2 AND IT WAS AMAZING!!!!

 

Ok, maybe "amazing" is exaggerating a little, but I did enjoy it a lot.

This might be due to a combination of things...

 

--I liked the graphics and the locations and it had more characters and everything seemed

a lot fuller and more colorful and interesting than the first KQ. I really liked the underwater area

(even though most of it wasn't explorable) and the clifftop and how you went to an enchanted area, etc.

 

--Also I had a better idea after playing the first KQ of what the deal was, like I knew some items were

just treasure, and that if something has a word on it then you can just say that word (thanks to the bowl puzzle).

 

--Miscellaneous stuff... the couple of adverts for SQ1 and KQ3 in there were great and also there were more

save spaces in this one, which was handy. It was almost like the first KQ was a little test run for this game or an

extended demo for it.

 

This one also seemed more logical and thought-out with the puzzles, I felt the game was

relatively fair with the puzzles, and so I was less inclined to look anything up (I find in general

that I turn to walkthroughs more readily if a game has screwed me over several times with crazy logic...

I then don't trust the game to be fair to me in future puzzles)

 

I did have to check a couple of things out, they were sort of more game mechanic things than 

puzzle answers though...

 

--I had read the inscription on the first door (with there being something to do with water), so I took this

as just a hint and I couldn't be arsed to walk aaaaalll the way back to the beach, so I restored a previous 

game where I was at the beach already (I had all the same items, so I figured I didn't lose anything by doing this).

That was a mistake, because reading the inscription is what actually triggers the mermaid to appear, so I was

wandering around for ages looking for something that wasn't there.

 

--I got the first key but then couldn't unlock the door... tried "key in door", "open door", "put key in keyhole" etc. etc.

Turned out it was just "unlock door". Doh.

 

The rest of it I completed fine, though I had already heard about not crossing the bridge too many times,

so I avoided that pitfall.

I didn't get full points... I assume there is something more complicated to do with the snake, but I just

smashed that dude with the sword because why give me a sword if I'm not going to use it.

 

Onwards to KQ3!

[MusicallyInspired]

Lol re: the snake, yeah there's something you can do to him that's definitely a best-case solution. Always assume that violence isn't the best answer in King's Quest (except for Dracula, you can kill him, though he's already dead I guess). Also, it's apparently from a very obscure fairy tale or myth. You get something out of it that helps you elsewhere later on. Congrats, though!

 

I'm trying to remember if the sword actually has a use...

[tomimt]

Now that you are entering KQ3, let me warn you before hand, when you do the spells, one of the spells has a wrong incantation line in the manual, so be sure to check out the right lines. The error is, if I recall right, included in every version of the game.

[JDHJANUS]

Congratulations on beating the first two games in the series!!! :D

 

The sword merely exists as an optional puzzle solution. You never actually have to use it in the game, although you can use it as an alternate solution (for less points) for several puzzles. As far as the actual "best" solution, I have researched several times and haven't been able to find any evidence in my research of mythology or fairy tales that would suggest such an unusual puzzle solution.

 

King's Quest III is my least favorite in the series, but a lot of people like it, so I hope you enjoy it as well! :) I feel that it's definitely longer than the first two, mainly due to numerous things at the beginning that must be done over a longer period of time when the wizard goes on his journeys/naps. And casting those spells is a pain in the rear end. O_o

 

Talk to you later!

 

JDHJANUS

Josh

[JimmyTwoBucks]

I hate this wizard.

[Frede]

"Gwydion! I need a colon cleansing."

[Collector]

I hate this wizard.

 

Alt+D -> bye bye wizard

[tomimt]

I always hated the cat more... and that's a lot from me as I love cats. Even before it was the thing to do in the internet.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

Alt+D -> bye bye wizard

Alt+Z -> bye bye game

[JimmyTwoBucks]

WHERE HAVE THE FRICKING PIRATES GONE, HOW COULD THEY HAVE SET SAIL WITHOUT ME??!!

 

Arse.

[tomimt]

Indeed... KQ3 suffers from a severe case of "you have to know things you just can't know before they happen" design.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

Indeed... KQ3 suffers from a severe case of "you have to know things you just can't know before they happen" design.

Seems like the perfect opportunity to bring this little gem back to the public consciousness:

 

[JDHJANUS]

JimmyTwoBucks, you can use a certain item and still end up on the pirate ship after it sets sail, but the item itself is not always the most reliable thing to use, and it can lead to some unusual situations (and most often, death). Still, you  aren't completely in a dead end situation, if memory serves me correctly.

 

Talk to you later!

 

JDHJANUS

Josh

[tomimt]

I just started to play KQ4 again. I must admit I had forgotten how much unfair puzzles that game has as well. It's filled with puzzle items you can miss because you just didn't think enough to just search the ground which you don't even see or that you just aren't able to see in the future in order to know how to solve something that you just can't know is coming.

It is a lovely game though. It's not as punishing as KQ3 is and you can even have an alternative bad ending in it as well.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

I have finished King's Quest 3.

Let us never speak of this game again.  :mellow:

 

Ok, I guess it did had some redeeming features, but my time spent with KQ3 was pretty horrific on

numerous levels. I didn't think I was going to finish it, so I'm surprised I'm able to report back.

 

So here's how it went for me:

After doing some chores (yay), I went and got a lot of the items from down in the village place, but then of course

I had taken too long out of the house, so I went back to the house and got killed...

I then assumed that it was a case of restarting and getting all the things again, but slowly... getting some,

coming back, hiding them, putting things back in its place, then getting some more items, etc.

 

But, that was not enjoyable at all to me, it was like I was going to have to play through the same things a whole bunch

of times before I get it "right" and get the timing down, then figure out even more things and then restart and 

get their timing right too. It seemed more like actual work than a game.

 

I didn't want to do the "BYE BYE WIZARD" thing in the debug mode (I had to type in "rats ass" to get the debug mode by the 

way, Alt-D didn't work), because I didn't want to miss things from the game, so instead I put in the code "SLEEP WIZARD" 

which doesn't get rid of him, it just sends him to sleep, so then I could at least go do all the spells with all the stuff I 

had while he was asleep.

Gathering the items was ok, nice enough adventure game type stuff, but I think because the designers knew

the main thing was avoiding the wizard, the item-getting didn't feel that fleshed out in terms of puzzles.

 

Onto the spells...zero fun.

It's a nice enough idea, but there is so much text and so many spells that it felt like I had started a data entry

job at a large corporation, where my only job was to input the KQ3 manual into my computer, with the added

bonus that if I mess it up at all I get to start the spell over again. And some of the manual was wrong too.

It was a pain and I never want to do it again.

 

So I finally finish the spells, I give the wizard his porridge and sigh in relief that this part of the game is over

and I can finally maybe just play the rest of the game out as "normal".

 

But no... I hadn't counted on: "If the player waits too long after speaking to the Oracle, the pirate ship will set sail."

So I was at a dead end, I'd done AAAALLL that stuff to get to that point, but it was unwinnable because I didn't realize the 

ship would sail. I was going to quit playing then because there was no way I was going redo all that stuff,

the data entry job, etc.

 

As a side note, I think these are one of the worst kind of deadends - at least normally you can go back and restore

somewhere where you still had some of your stuff. With this game, you have to restore far back enough to when you

were in a certain position AND had enough time left, so in the case of the pirates, I'd have to go way, way back and

leave the Oracle thing until last or whatever.

 

Also I think some of the timed things might be a lot less frustrating if they'd have at least had something like:

"the wizard has gone out for a while, he's usually gone for about 25 mins or so" and

"the pirates are probably gonna set sail in half an hour, so pick up the pace".

 

BUT, instead of quitting, I checked the other debug codes to see if there was a way around this, and there kinda was...

there is "PUT UP BOAT" and it starts you at the beginning of the boat journey with your stuff still intact (I didn't fancy teleporting

at random until I ended up there).

Phewf, so I could continue. I actually took a big break here because I couldn't face the rest of the game so soon...

but once I did, the rest of the game was bizarrely easy for the most part and I finished it in about 45 mins.

 

The couple of things I had a little trouble with were the spell that goes "Slumber, Henceforth!"

It doesn't recognize the comma or the exclamation mark from the manual, BUT "slumber" has to have a capital "S"... nice and random.

 

Then the other thing was that once you've effectively finished the game...

"ROSELLA, GET THE FECK OUTTA MY WAY, I'M TRYING TO GET DOWN THE DAMN STAIRS!!!"

What was all that about, why was she being such a pain?

Anyway, I reasonably enjoyed the second half of the game, even though it felt kinda undercooked...

very nice locations, but not a lot of puzzles. Could have done way more interesting things on the ship

and in the mountains, etc.

 

My main problem with the game is that to beat parts of it, you've basically got to waste huge stretches

of your time/life doing things that aren't enjoyable, which is pretty unforgivable for a game, I feel.

 

And normally you get to experience what it might be like to be an exciting explorer/adventurer...

but this game brilliantly simulates what it would be like to be an evil wizard's embittered servant,

which lo and behold, is not much fun.

 

The overarching story is the only bit that I think improves on the previous games, but otherwise I much

preferred KQ2's assortment of colorful characters and tasks, even if they were random.

 

So now onto KQ4!

[Collector]

You might want to try the "Ultimate KQ4" version. http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3925&start=60#p53395

[JDHJANUS]

You just very aptly summed up a lot of the problems that I have with King's Quest III. I hope you enjoy King's Quest IV! It's one of my favorites in the series, and it's a really fun game. As Tomimt mentioned, it definitely has the typical King's Quest dead ends, but it's much more forgiving than King's Quest III, and although the entire game is on a timer (you have to actually complete it in 24 real-time hours, I believe), it's fairly simple to do, even if you don't necessarily know what you're doing.

 

And yes, you should definitely use Collector's installer! The sound effects along with the beautiful Munt emulation for the music really makes it worth it. King's Quest IV was Sierra's first game to have a real soundtrack, and William Goldstein did a fantastic job on it!

 

Talk to you later!

 

Josh

[tomimt]

KQ3 is sadistic game, there's no way around it. But it does turn more enjoyable after you've been frustrated with at first, maybe it's some sort of Stockholm syndrome.