Sierra may be coming back (New KQ Game)

[MusicallyInspired]

For ActiVision? Cash-in. For The Odd Gentlemen? Acceptance. For some fans? Just getting something called "King's Quest" again. I'm interested. I hope if it is a platformer it's something a little more unique than a straight platformer with TR-like puzzles. I don't know. They've said both that it's an adventure and that it's not the game you played 20+ years ago...I don't know.

[Troels Pleimert]

It'll be a Candy Crush clone. I can just feel it.

 

"Tap here to buy extra gold coins to see Madame Mushka."

[JimmyTwoBucks]

It's a weird thing they try to do with adventure game franchises...

 

It's like buying Pizza Hut as a brand, but then only selling burgers...

With the logic that they think kids today are too dumb to appreciate the complexity of pizzas.

 

Or associating point-and-click with some mythical past world like, "people only liked that in the 90s",

like some weird rare breed of people who were psychically in tune with point-and-click...

 

No one ever goes, "oh, jumping, that went out in the late 80s with Mario, no one will buy a jumping game today,"

"shooting stuff is SO 1992 and went out with Wolfenstein, you think kids want to shoot stuff today?

Get your head out the 90s."

 

I just wish game makers had a bit of confidence in the format/genre, without switching the whole genre of the game.

You don't see it with other types of games, you don't get a new Call of Duty where it's now a car racing game and

there is no shooting and fans going, "I'm happy Call of Duty is branching out and being different, we can't expect

it to be stuck in the past with all that shooting, car racing is what the kids want now."

 

It also doesn't make any sense from a marketing angle either:

You're supposedly making an adventure game, but you water down or almost completely remove the adventure game

elements. So that's your core market gone - adventure gamers who actually recognize the franchise name, or new

gamers who might be open to the idea of an adventure game. Those are out of the picture now.

 

But here is the part that is even crazier: you then try to make a big action game with your minuscule adventure game budget.

A game that will now have to compete in the same genre with games with huge budgets and massive teams with ginormous marketing pushes.

So you leave the niche in which you could totally dominate for a mainstream arena that you don't have a chance in.

 

What would get more of an audience is not trying to swap the existing audience for a different, larger audience (who everyone

is trying to target already) by changing the type of game, but to grow the existing audience for adventure games by

making a really good one.

[tomimt]

I do understand why they do try to reach other than P&C gamers really. Despite there has been some success stories in KS front, none of the released P&C adventures have really done anything remarkable in the market place. The best ones have propably done enough money for a small studio, like Revolution for an example, but even the game that kickstarted the Kickstarter trend didn't really do a thing in the market, especially from the POV of a big company. So in that sense the way to go is pretty clear: either an interactive adventure story like what Telltale does or to try something different if you don't want to spend that much money, but still want something that might sell better than traditional adventure games.

[Frede]

They also get to put out the game on a bigger market that way. Does anyone actually want to play vintage P&C on a console? Troels has spoken in the favour of the Wii, but the Wii U is still the most disappointing console, sales-wise, of the current generation. I can't blame them. Why limit what could be a mainstream rebirth of King's Quest just because the die-hards - who, I'm sorry, seem to rarely want any kind of renewal or rethinking - want it?
 
I, for one, am still looking forward to this game. But as I've said many, many times, I'm not really a fan of Roberta's designs. So I'd be pretty disappointed if it was a P&C'er where you have to guess the name of the gnome Llanfair­pwllgwyn­gyllgo­gery­chwyrn­drobwll­llanty­silio­gogo­goch.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

I do understand why they do try to reach other than P&C gamers really.

 

Yeah, I understand why they do it - they think they will get both the existing fans of the franchise,

as well as appealing to fans of other games, so wins all round right? Well no, because you end up getting

rid of the core fans and you also have to compete with bigger budgeted games for the fans of those other genres.

 

 even the game that kickstarted the Kickstarter trend didn't really do a thing in the market

 

The kickstarter ones already did well in the marketplace because the kickstarter IS the marketplace -

that's the audience and they've already paid for the game.

 

Double Fine got over $3 million... as long as they haven't been dummies and blown all that money

on celebrity voice-overs and fancy animation, then they should be making a great profit on it.

Anything they sell outside of that kickstarter audience should be a bonus if they've done the math correctly.

 

an interactive adventure story like what Telltale does

 

Telltale is different again in that their biggest successes are not with existing adventure game brands, but with movie and TV brands.

The turning point for them came when they did the Back to the Future game and then The Walking Dead - the brands sell the games.

Put an official Walking Dead game out and it will sell simply because of the TV show's huuuuuge popularity, as long as the game isn't

a total stinker. They've realized this is a winning formula now and that's why they've got Game of Thrones, etc.

 

Why limit what could be a mainstream rebirth of King's Quest

 

Is it a rebirth though if it's something unrecognizable as a King's Quest game, and is King's Quest in name alone?

You could take Grand Theft Auto V, put the name "King's Quest" on it and voila, the King's Quest name is famous again... but for what?

To make JUST the name famous again without any of the gameplay?

 

The point of using an existing name like King's Quest is because it already has a fanbase.

But the strategy then seems to be: screw the fanbase, we want a new, bigger fanbase for this franchise.

Well then why use the name at all, seeing as you're starting your fanbase from scratch, just give it a new name.

 

Imagine if Gears of War had come out and had been called Monkey Island... yay, Monkey Island is famous again!

But it's not actually Monkey Island, so why bother?

 

just because the die-hards - who, I'm sorry, seem to rarely want any kind of renewal or rethinking - want it?

 

I think most adventure gamers are open to new things as part of the existing adventure game format...

But the "rethinking" is almost never that - it's just changing the genre of the game to one that's more popular right now.

[tomimt]

Yeah, I understand why they do it - they think they will get both the existing fans of the franchise,

as well as appealing to fans of other games, so wins all round right? Well no, because you end up getting

rid of the core fans and you also have to compete with bigger budgeted games for the fans of those other genres.

 

I honestly don't think they actually even need the "old" fans that much. They don't even need adventure game fans that much. The people they are aiming this one doesn't have the nostalgic connection to the game, but they still might have brand recognition. Some people might even be interested of seeing what the fuss those old, grumpy gamers were all about really is about, when they talked about KQ with a tear in their eye. Or actually they do need the old fans, but only to talk about it, not really buy it. Talking by itself is enough, the tone of discussion matters here very little.

 

What Activision is doing here, and I think it is a very smart move at that, is the rebirth of a name. Two names, actually, and both of them in their own right iconic, but neither is a name you need to have played, or experienced yourself at first hand, as both KQ and Sierra do still echo in many places, in written word and in many game videos. There's a lot of people still talking about them and that could be what they want to spark. A bit like what movie studios want to spark when they dig a classic monster from its slumber, like Dracula or Frankenstein. There's no need for the new viewer to have seen Bela Lugosi's movies to know Dracula. There's no real need for that nostalgic connection for the potential viewe to be interested about it, as the name stands tall itself.

 

Will it work? Who knows. The difference between Dracula and KQ or Sierra is time. Dracula has hanged around a lot longer. A lot of people know him even if they haven't seen nor read any movies or books about him. But a lot of iconic actors have portrayed him. What I'm interested here the most really is, if they can make it work.

 

 

[tomimt]

 

 

The kickstarter ones already did well in the marketplace because the kickstarter IS the marketplace -

that's the audience and they've already paid for the game.

 

The thing is, you need other people to buy the game as well. Not that many games have managed to do so. We already know that Jane Jensen won't be making continuation for Moebius, that game was a  disaster that wore her out. It might have sold just barely enough to cover the additional money they poured in it. Tesla Effect wasn't a high seller either, though Big Finish is hoping it could make profit at some point. A lot of those games have ended up being more expensive than what they got from the KS. Even Larry Reloaded ended up costing over a million (if Trowe is to be trusted, but think Josh Mandel said the same)

 

A lot of those KS budgets just aren't the whole picture, as many devs have already poured in money in their games even before they come to KS. And many devs end up pouring more money in the development, because in some cases what they get isn't necessarily enough, because stuff happens.

[suejak]

From a dollars perspective, I think everybody can understand using the name for a non-adventure game. The King's Quest name takes a boring, generic game by a random studio of nobodies and puts both on the map. It draws undue attention and interest to what would otherwise be a minor product.

 

King's Quest isn't even a very original setting or lore in the first place. It's the most generic of generic European-fairy-tale fantasy. The sole reason for appropriating the brand to create any random "modern" game is advertising.

 

But I think real grognards ought to be upset anyway. The idea is founded on a fundamental disrespect for the license: "We're not going to do anything meaningful with the license anyway, so let's go ahead and use it to boost your random title." No, the only way you'll get the kinds of games you actually want is to say that you don't want a platformer.

 

If you don't really want a new King's Quest that's actually an adventure game, then obviously you can slap Activision on the back for "breathing new life into the license." But really, we got more out of King's Quest when the corporate owners were ignoring it: that's when we got THREE beautiful remakes and other beautiful adventure game riffs on the license.

 

We wouldn't have gotten any of that if Activision were busy milking the name to create a "new, modern brand" of platformers.

[MusicallyInspired]

Heh there's still so much we don't know. My standards are already low, so I'm left with just being intrigued at what they come up with. I might actually enjoy it. Regarding the discussion about who this is catered to, maybe it was pressure from ActiVision to rig the teaser a certain way. A teaser doesn't contain gameplay elements, though. It never did. Think back to the teasers for Arkham City. There wasn't a shred of gameplay in that. Or Aliens: Colonial Marines. In fact, they were entirely pre-rendered. At least this is running in the game engine. Granted, one of these games was a disaster and looked nothing like the actual alleged "in-game" footage that was released previously, but the other game turned out to be amazing. One thing is for sure, that video did send one message "adventure". Maybe not the game genre adventure that we're used to, but the actual definition of adventure. Journeying, discovering exotic locations, excitement, characters.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

Heh there's still so much we don't know. My standards are already low, so I'm left with just being intrigued at what they come up with.

All edginess and hyperbole aside, I've heard that exact same line of reasoning on the TTLG forums before Thiaf was released. Every single thing that Eidos Montreal spewed out of their asses up to release made your inner alarm bells go "Fuck this shit! Just run for your life and hope that an asteroid hits Montreal before this shit is released!" And still, there were lots of people going "Hey, I haven't played it, it could still be good!". Rule of thumb: If it looks like a cash-grab, that's because it usually is. Maybe this sounds cynical to you, but keep in mind that this industry is as fundamentally cynical as you can get.

 

 

Maybe not the game genre adventure that we're used to, but the actual definition of adventure. Journeying, discovering exotic locations, excitement, characters.

Not kidding here, the last (non-indie) game I played that had all of these things was freakin' "Mini Ninjas". Yes, an obscure kids game, made by the guys responsible for the "Hitman"-gorefests. They wanted to make a game that their children could play and it's so apparent from playing the game how they poured their hearts and souls into creating this amazing journey for their kids.

 

Shameless plug: You can get Mini Ninjas for a couple of bucks on the British amazon. What are you, poor? Buy the damn game! You won't regret it!

[drdrslashvohaul]

It's because, as always, larger companies want to take the shortcut to making money now rather than playing the long game.

 

Keep making small-budget, great games, and eventually one or two will be breakout successes. They'll appeal to the core audience, but drag in new people to the genre. Because they'll be good games.

 

You can't just take something that has had some niche success (or mainstream success at a time when, frankly, the technology is almost irrelevant to gaming today) and then pump money into marketing into something new.

 

If adventure gaming goes mainstream again, it's going to be because of good story telling and game mechanics from the indies. Eventually, a couple will be so good and capture the public mood of the moment, and it will "go viral" as the kids say (well... kids from 2004).

 

Or... shock... perhaps adventure games don't appeal to most people because the concept is not considered relevant to most people today. That's a possibility to consider. We're a tiny minority, and it doesn't make much business sense to invest in us. Either way, it helps nobody if you're going to take the classic adventure game series and then do something decidedly un-adventurey with them.

 

Frankly, the companies can do what they like. I spend so little money on games nowadays, I'm part of the problem, not the solution. :p

[Fronzel Neekburm]

I spend so little money on games nowadays, I'm part of the problem, not the solution. :P

Au contraire! You are part of the solution! The myriads of gamers willing to spend their money on endless shit are the real problem.

[JDHJANUS]

It's nice to hear overall general positive (or at the very least, less negative) perspectives of this trailer here than in a lot of places (some people have downright attacked the game based on the trailer in other locations on the web).

 

I myself am actually looking forward to it, and I found the trailer to be really cool and exciting. Even if the game does have some action elements in it, I actually enjoy action-adventures, and I've played several that have been designed so well that they really shine out even moreso than some traditional adventure games (such as Ico or Okami for the PS2). I think, though, that this game will have even more adventure elements than either of those games, as I don't foresee this game having traditional battles/bosses like you would find in either of those games, or even Mask of Eternity.

 

Another thing to point out is that adventure games have not always been absent of arcade/action elements in them either. Look at all of the Space Quest games. If  you took a game like Space Quest III and only showed scenes of the space battle or Nukem-Dukem Robots, would you get the feel of a traditional adventure game from those two items alone? Sierra put arcade sequences into a lot of their games, so it doesn't seem all that strange to have action/arcade elements in a new King's Quest game (as long as it doesn't involve a painfully annoying beanstalk climb or a treacherous mountain path...) :D

 

To me, what I'm most concerned about, is whether or not it has a strong story that pays homage to the series as a whole. From the trailer, it seems pretty awesome. I like the little references that they show to the first game, so I have hopes that the storyline will continue to stay true to the legacy that has been developed through the series over the past 30 years.

 

Talk to you later!

 

JDHJANUS

Josh

[Fronzel Neekburm]

The RPG Codex in particular has taken a fondness to NuKing's Quest...

 

 

 

They even created a new smiley in its honor:

 

 

 

 

 

:y: :y: :y: :y: :y: :y: :y: :y: :y: :y:

 

Say what you will about the Dex, they do have a way of getting the point across.

[suejak]

Only problem is they have zero idea what the game is actually like yet, lol.

[tomimt]

The RPG Codex in particular has taken a fondness to NuKing's Quest...

 

 

 

They even created a new smiley in its honor:

 

 

 

 

Gotta love RPGCodex...

 

I read their page quite often, but I've never dared to post there, as they would propably hurt my feeble feelings. :(

[MusicallyInspired]

The lead designer has popped up on Facebook and has been answering questions. He can't say much, and we won't know things for sure until we see some actual gameplay ourselves, but he has confirmed that it is "certainly not a platformer or action-oriented," is episodic, is open-world, is able to interact with the environment, "not point & click in the traditional sense but is an updated take on the formula (more details to come)". And we can expect puzzles, exploration (those two alone satisfy me), and a humour-filled wondrous story. He also said we shouldn't be concerned about linear gameplay and expects us to be pleased in that department. He says the trailer was cut more action-oriented because "adventure game mechanics are hard to show in a trailer without making the trailer seem slow for a mass audience." He also says he hopes he can go into more detail about why soon. This doesn't and has never bothered me personally, though. He goes on to say that if this game is successful, it could show the industry that people still want games where charm, storytelling, and using your mind are at the forefront. That's a winning approach in my book. Only time will tell for sure, though.

 

He also wants to do a straight up AMA in Jan.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

That all sounds very promising...

My biggest concern now would be the level of the puzzles and them being too simple.

I just hope they're not the kind where you need an apple, and there is an apple tree

on the same screen and you just go over and pick one up, etc. 

[MusicallyInspired]

Agreed.

[drdrslashvohaul]

Sounds Shenmue-y...

[MusicallyInspired]

Shenmue was awesome.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

DENIAL

Only problem is they have zero idea what the game is actually like yet, lol.

ANGER

Gotta love RPGCodex...

BARGAINING

The lead designer has popped up on Facebook and has been answering questions.

 

Holy smokes! We went through three stages of the Kübler-Ross model in less than half a page of forum posts! :P

 

 

That last part DOES sound kind of promising though. But then I remind myself that the NuKQue will be Steam-exclusive, so truth be told I'm rather indifferent as to whether it will actually suck of not.

 

Shenmue was awesome.

Indeed it was (is)! Got me a Dreamcast for the sole purpose of playing Shenmue. It's a bloody shame that it was never ported to another system.

[tomimt]

I know you're joking Fronzel, but I have no anger towards RPGCodex for that emoticon. It's the most entertaining game site on the web.

[suejak]

The game that MusicallyInspired described sounds like a King's Quest worth playing. I'm a little disappointed in the way Graham looks (I preferred the fantasy-novel-cover-art look of the original King's Quest games), but if the gameplay tends more toward adventure than action, I'm interested.