What's up with SpaceVenture?

[PurpleTentacle]

Chris already categorically stated in a recent update that they were not. Out. Of. Money. That really should be good enough.

There is also no way in hell that they'd launch another Kickstarter without conferring with those of us who helped promote the first one, so I am happily enough in the know to tell you that this simply has not happened.

I seriously don't know why you keep going back to this; it has been refuted by people in the know several times, but it keeps falling on deaf ears. What are we gonna do - have the poor man post a bank statement every month?

I just now read your response. I had only see the pcjr one. What do I keep going back to? I'm sorry that I don't read this forum very often. Yes, Chris probably has mentioned it, but maybe I wanted confirmation. I'm sorry I don't live and breathe the goings on here. I kind of have other things going on, and I only think to check up on this once in a blue moon. And what role do you play again? I'm sorry that you have to answer the same question over and over. Actually, that's just too damn bad. Now I'm sorry I even wrote a complimentary message saying that I appreciate the hard work. Lol. Maybe you are on edge or feeling pissy, but excuse me for caring enough to check in here.

 

And another thing: maybe it just doesn't carry as much weight if it's coming from Chris, no offense to him, and should instead come from one of the leads. Maybe that's why people are still wondering about this. Yeah, maybe I do gloss over the blah, fluffy updates. But I know I would sure sit up and pay attention to something from Scott or Mark directly.

 

Have a nice day.

[drdrslashvohaul]

Chris is one of three people who run the company along with Scott and Mark. He is one of the leads. In fact, he is the project leader co-ordinating the whole project.

 

I agree that having something coming straight from Scott or Mark's mouth would have a more resounding impact. But that's only because of the profile of the two of them. Chris may not be "the third guy from Andromeda", but he is the Space Pope.

 

Or, in short - nobody knows more about the company's finances than him. Scott and Mark have equal knowledge.

 

As for the slightly pissy tone - a while ago a lot of people were basically lying about the company being out of money. It's a sensitive subject. Don't take the reaction too personally. :)

[pcj]

Also you probably want Scott and Mark focusing on the game rather than PR. (Especially Scott, he can get off on tangents...)

[JimmyTwoBucks]

I think some jittery people would feel more reassured hearing from them. It's like when our country is attacked. We want to hear from the guy in charge, the president, immediately and live from the Oval Office, speaking calmly, confidently and showing that he is in control, as he explains the measures he is taking for defense or counterattack. Basically, I think it would be great to see and hear from the captains of SpaceVenture on a more regular basis. I can sympathize with Chris Pope, since it seems like he has a difficult job being the guy having to maintain a smile, standing outside closed gates, trying to placate an anxious crowd wanting to see the work going on behind the gates.

 

Yes, maybe Chris needs to hire extra security to stop the baying masses from breaking down the doors to the building

and flooding in, demanding more frequent and substantial updates or the looting and pillaging will start.

 

I suggest that Scott and Mark make appearances on all the big US news networks and talk shows, preferably alongside

Obama, to calm the nerves of the millions watching and pacing nervously at home, so that mass panic does not break out

around the financial status of the SpaceVenture project.

 

Or maybe they quite rightly don't give a toss about a handful of people who keep making unfounded insinuations about

the amount of money they have left and are just getting on with finishing the game?

[Dat Engineer]

I suggest that Scott and Mark make appearances on all the big US news networks and talk shows, preferably alongside

Obama, to calm the nerves of the millions watching and pacing nervously at home, so that mass panic does not break out

around the financial status of the SpaceVenture project.

 

Or maybe they quite rightly don't give a toss about a handful of people who keep making unfounded insinuations about

the amount of money they have left and are just getting on with finishing the game?

I would ally myself more with the latter position than the former. Patience is a virtue. This is nowhere near vaporware territory yet.

 

By the way, nothing is ever worth a triple post.

[PurpleTentacle]

Yes, maybe Chris needs to hire extra security to stop the baying masses from breaking down the doors to the building

and flooding in, demanding more frequent and substantial updates or the looting and pillaging will start.

 

I suggest that Scott and Mark make appearances on all the big US news networks and talk shows, preferably alongside

Obama, to calm the nerves of the millions watching and pacing nervously at home, so that mass panic does not break out

around the financial status of the SpaceVenture project.

 

Or maybe they quite rightly don't give a toss about a handful of people who keep making unfounded insinuations about

the amount of money they have left and are just getting on with finishing the game?

Who are these handful of people making unfounded insinuations about what money is left? I see concern about this project in several forums, and I don't think the people wondering are trying to spread misinformation. I believe that people are legitimately concerned. To suggest that Scott and Mark "not give a toss" about the fact that many backers are wondering if the game is dead or in serious trouble reflects an unfortunate tendency to attack skeptical people rather than try to do a better job of reassuring backers.

 

For the record, I am now convinced the development is okay financially.

 

I believe some of you people forget that not everyone follows this particular project as closely as you do. You are going to have to say the same things over, and over, and over, so get used to it. The pissy attitude isn't going to help your cause. You sound like those people who scream at new forum users, "that question has already been answered a million times in the FAQs! Can't you read?"

 

And I apologize for getting pcj's name wrong. That was not intentional.

 

Anyway, you guys want to defend the fact that Scott and Mark never make a peep on the Kickstarter page. I think it's a mistake. Would writing a few paragraphs to backers every other month really be impossible? I think not. Most other Kickstarters have their main designers posting updates now and then. In all honesty, I had never heard of Pope before this. I suspect most hadn't. We backed because of Scott and Mark. The game was sold on their reputations.

[MusicallyInspired]

They just released a spectacular content-heavy update. Why do they need to confirm they still have money? It looks to be going swimmingly. If people are still going to question that after an official Kickstarter Update (not a post on Twitter or the forums here) then, well sorry, but no they don't deserve an answer.

 

I didn't know Chris Pope before this either. I don't really need to. Why should I? Yeah we backed because of Scott and Mark. But they themselves can't praise Chris enough so I trust they know what they're doing. I don't need them to take time out of development to kick Chris off of update duty and write a bunch of stuff Chris was just going to say anyway and probably far more eloquently as that's what he does. The Two Guys trust him enough for him to be in that position so they don't have to and so should we. This has nothing to do with being "more in the know" or "closer followers" of the project than others. This is all information available from recent Kickstarter Updates. That's all we need. I'm all for helping out backers with answers they don't have if they're not following the project closely, but there comes a point when you just need to start doing your own research about something that's simply as easily available as possible. Google is your friend. Kickstarter is your friend. Forum search is your friend. No, I don't think we should have to say the same things over and over again. If they care enough to need to know these things they can find it out easily enough from the SpaceVenture website or the Kickstarter Updates at the very least. They've repeated over and over they're not out of money and the recent update I believe speaks for itself. If people are still worried then they have paranoia issues and probably shouldn't have backed in the first place.

[Frede]

Brandon, Gareth and Sam said it way better than I could. Yes, I admit I have a beef with people who're actively looking for stuff to worry about. Your definition of a "legitimate concern" certainly differs from mine. The last update showed that there is nothing to be concerned about unless you want to be concerned. The "probably out of money" drama is getting more tiresome every time it's brought up.

As for your snarky remark about having other things to do and thus not checking in often, it's not as if I live here, you know. I just take a semi-active interest in stuff I throw money at, and that includes receiving and reading email notifications from Kickstarter. That's all it takes.
 
Your comment about regretting your good luck post for the team will have to stand on its own. I am not, in any way, affiliated with the actual game development. I am a close friend of several of the team members, and I took part in the social media campaign for the Kickstarter, but that's it. I'm just another fan. But one who gets exponentially tired of certain other "fans" being stuck in the same negative groove...

Edited May 15, 2015 by Frede

[PurpleTentacle]

Well, hmm. I actually only came here because I was concerned we might see another Kickstarter or "surprise" from the Two Guys, based on things I read. I have this site bookmarked on my phone, so I came over here to find out. And I was happy to learn that that won't happen. That was kind of really my only point in thinking to visit here. Didn't mean to upset the group here.

 

As for expecting people to do their research before asking questions, okay! Sorry, I guess I'm lazy. Oh, well. And not everyone is going to read every update or bother to Google something before asking questions. If you think it's acceptable giving people attitude when they ask questions you hear all the time or that you think they should be able to find the answer to on their own, okay! I believe that will needlessly annoy people. If you guys are going to be team members or whatever the heck this group is (fan club? development team members? I don't quite get it), you are going to have to get used to answering the same questions over and over.

 

This site doesn't seem to be drowning in new posts, anyway, and maybe you should be happy that people think to post here at all, even if you think the questions are dumb.

[PurpleTentacle]

Anyway, about people being concerned or "paranoid" about the game's funding situation, I think it has to do with how late the game is. Also, there were times when we didn't hear much regarding progress updates. I did read the latest update and remember thinking it was good. To say that people shouldn't have backed in the first place if they are still concerned now seems kind of harsh. It doesn't matter if the updates say they aren't out of money. A lot of people will still be skeptical. It's not like they would have no reason to be concerned. I personally am not still concerned about the funding, but I have wondered why we haven't really seen or heard from the "Two Guys" at all. They are why people backed. It has just seemed weird to me. Like they are being hidden. I would have thought they would have wanted to communicate with people through updates, at least occasionally, to tell people how swimmingly things are going. Am I the only one who has felt this way? All these scenarios went through my head when I tried to imagine why we weren't hearing from them. I'm afraid to say the things I thought for fear it will piss off people, so please understand these are just crazy ideas that went though my head and they have no basis in fact. I wondered if they were feuding, if someone wasn't well, if a principal was not involved in the development anymore and they didn't want it to be known, if there were differences of opinion as to the direction to take, etc. Maybe it's just me who ponders this stuff. It just doesn't seem like it would be too burdensome or distracting for them to say *something* on there now and then. I don't think those imagined scenarios are likely now, after having read more, though, but my mind will sometimes jump and imagine the worst in order to explain things that seem odd. So, yeah. That's pretty much it. If any of you happen to run into one of the two guys in the near future, you should perhaps suggest that maybe it might be nice for backers to hear from them.

[PurpleTentacle]

Something else that occurred to me: Jane Jensen, Al Lowe, Josh Mandel and Corey Cole all have addressed backers on Kickstarter, on a sort of regular basis, after funding goals were reached. And those are just the Sierra veterans. Non-Sierra veteran Kickstarters are the same. The people who made the pitches and whose names were used to sell the campaigns don't just go silent after the fundraising campaign ends. So I hope someone here will concede that I do have a good point in saying that it is strange for the actual Two Guys to not be heard from in updates. :-) But I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for anyone here to agree with me. I also think hearing from them on there would strengthen the bond between them and fans.

 

What I would like to see (in an update) is a picture of the Two Guys working on the game. Or maybe a picture from a group meeting, if and when the team meets in person. Not something from a convention. I would like to see something like this because I think it would improve backer perceptions even more.

 

Armikrog and Tex Murphy Kickstarters did this sort of thing.

[tomimt]

The communication from the devs to backers has been always a bit of a blind spot with SpaceVenture. When they had more frequent communication their updates tended to be nothing at all, now with less frequent communication they to tend to show more things, but alas I still couldn't tell WHERE the project is actually going and in WHAT state it really is.

In comparision to the brilliant communication in Thimbleweed Park and Ron Gilbert, SpaceVenture is a huge question mark for me.  The way Thimbleweed communication goes I have a pretty clear image of what they do, why they do it, in what state the game planning is, how the engine is developed, how the scene wireframing is progressing etc. There where the Guys have hard time updating once in a couple of months Ron, Gary and David have time to do two meaty updates a week. But that's propably because Ron seems to be VERY organized person. 

[MusicallyInspired]

I just don't believe we need to hear from them. I take away that they are really busy working on the game which is time better spent. Also, Broken Age was just as late as SpaceVenture is and they just released. Granted they had the documentary videos, but they're also an actual dev company with offices and experience in running that business as well as a library of older titles to benefit financially from. Also, the documentary was part of the Kickstarter budget. The Two Guys don't have any of those advantages.

 

This may just be me, but I really don't need a bunch of updates with a ton of very intricate details on every facet of the project nor do I want them. And I don't believe they're obligated to give them either. The rate of updates and the content we've been getting is just fine for me. But that's just me...

 

As far as what this commumity is, this is the SpaceQuest.net fan community forum. We designated a small area to the Two Guys project at Chris's request which we were only too happy to provide. None of us are team members or know anything more about the project than any other backer (with the willingness to read every update) except for Pcj who was an intern but is now one of the lead programmers I think? And Troels who is an intern still. Everyone else is just a fan and backer, myself included.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

I could understand the worries and panic back when it all first started and there was pretty much nothing

to show for a while and there was talk about programming problems that needed to be dealt with first...

 

But at the stage we're at now, there's been loads and loads of pics of the game and artwork and animations, etc.

and it's been coming at us at a steady rate.

 

It seems like some people are just addicted to imaginary drama at this point.

[MusicallyInspired]

To expound further, I say paranoid people shouldn't have backed in the first place because they should have known what backing a Kickstarter project entailed. It did not entail a guarantee of anything. Just a brighter hope. You are not owed anything for your money, save the rewards for the tier you backed at should the project get completed. Yes, should. It's not guaranteed. But that's why we backed, to make that more of a possibility and give them a chance.

 

I feel like this is a no-brainer yet everyone thinks they're entitled to all these certainties. Yes, it's very nice that a lot of other Kickstarter projects give a certain quantity of updates, level of communication, behind the scenes features, and all that. But that doesn't mean every Kickstarter has to. The Two Guys have chosen to be more secretive. I for one prefer that approach. That means less spoiling of the final game for me. I don't care how it's proceeding or what they're having problems with or what roadblocks they run into. I don't need to know any of that. You can say "but people have legitimate concerns" or "it would be a good idea to make everyone feel at ease" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they don't owe anybody anything and they're not breaking any contracts or treating people unfairly by not doing so. It's not underhanded to feel like you don't have to update your backers on certain aspects (or any aspect) of the project just because they're backers. If you think you do then we have very different ideas of what our role is as a backer.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how or why they go through what they do to get to the end product. Only two things matter: whether the game gets released or not and whether it's good when/if it does. If it's released then it was money well spent, no matter the amount of updates/communication or lack thereof throughout the process. Period. That's what it was for. You wanted the Two Guys to make a game and they did. If it's a good game then you would be satisfied with the product and maybe possibly choose to fund them again in the future. If it's not a good game then you don't fund a new game. It's as simple as that. I'm not even saying this because I'm a "fanboy" of SQ and the Two Guys or just blindly worshipping everything they do and defending their every decision. This goes for any Kickstarter project and I'd have the same attitude. Tim Schafer's Broken Age is nothing like what I expected but I backed the project because I wanted Tim Schafer to make a new adventure game. He did. It's not what I expected, but that doesn't matter. My backing didn't come with a guarantee that I would be satisfied with everything I'd get, or even that I'd get anything at all. I'm glad I backed, but I wouldn't do it again. I defend his Kickstarter campaign and I'd do the same if there was never a promise of a documentary and he gave no updates. If you gauge your satisfaction of a Kickstarter by its updates then, with respect, you're doing it wrong, and yes I stand by my statement that you shouldn't have backed in the first place because you didn't understand what it meant going in.

[drdrslashvohaul]

Where I do agree with Mr Tentacle is that it's important to keep repeating things, without a pissy tone. If the questions are getting that annoying, make an FAQ.

 

If people still ask, point them politely to the FAQ.

 

If those same people still ask, piss away. :)

 

Like PurpleTentacle I get very, very annoyed with regular forum members in other places who take a high-and-mighty tone with those who aren't as informed. By all means, by quite concise and short if you have to keep repeating yourself. But try to be civil.

 

To respond to a specific point - yes, there were many people who had legitimate concerns re: the funding situation. But there were also people who were deliberately pushing misinformation. Things got a little heated. It explains BUT DOES NOT EXCUSE the reactionary responses.

[MusicallyInspired]

"...those who aren't as informed."

 

This is my point. Everything you need to know is in the Kickstarter updates that are emailed to you automatically. There's no reason to be any less informed than anybody else about what matters most about the project. I just don't understand how anybody could be worried about the project after that last update alone.

[pcj]

I think a FAQ in the forums is a great idea. I'll try to cobble something together this weekend.

[PurpleTentacle]

I'm sorry for being argumentative. Beyond the issues mentioned regarding communication to backers, I'm really not that concerned about (and am actually sorta impressed) about what has been shown of this project. That's really the truth. I'm on you guys' "side" (if there are even sides), just so you know. When I complain about not hearing from Mark/Scott, etc., it's not because I personally need to hear from them. I'm just thinking about how it would appear to other people. Don't understate the laziness of people and their inability to read all updates, etc. You just have to be patient with people who aren't as "in the know" as people here. Imagine returning to the Kickstarter page after years and not feeling like reading everything... it's easy to imagine someone in this situation saying, "where the hell is the damn game and what have you done with all the money?!" It helps to be nice, even if what they're mad about doesn't make any sense to you.

 

It reminds me of a situation like this: you walk up to a store clerk at a counter late at night and ask what time they're closing, then the clerk says, "if you had been listening you would have heard the last 20 announcements that we are closing in 10 minutes, and our hours are clearly marked on the door if you had bothered to look. Sheesh." That annoys people, even if the clerk is technically correct. I just say it's good in some situations to bite your tongue and answer straightforwardly like pcj did. I'm sure there are going to be irate people (for whatever reason) in the Kickstarter comments from here on out, especially when it comes time to mail out rewards.

[Frede]

Okay, with the discussion that followed my post in mind, I'd like to apologise for being harsh. Again. For the record, my post was an editfest and the first couple of drafts were way, way nastier, which I ultimately regretted.

 

The "out of money" thing has bugged me a lot. Every single time I have seen that question asked, it has been with an undercurrent of "just admit it, guys". And a negative answer from people on the team has only led to a shrug, and the asking of the same question 2-3 months later down the road. So it's not so much the question as the attitude that appears to come with it.

 

People who seem persistent in refusing to seek out information readily available to me also tend to frustrate me, accounting for my outburst. You may well have your reasons, which your argumentation does indicate that you do. I obviously don't know how Internet savvy you are either; I am often surprised by how many people aren't very used to this domain when it seems so obvious to others. A crappy generalisation on my part.

 

Anyway, apologies for being an asshole; I just wanted to clear the air and state where exactly my reaction was coming from. I do believe the new FAQ might help, though - and this is no joke - you may want to update the answer about not being broke once in a while and put a date on it.

 

Again, it would seem that answering that question only keeps a lot of backers (PurpleTentacle obviously not lumped in with that demographic) satisfied for a couple of months at a time, if not less. So if the team can categorically state through here that "As of [date], we are still not broke", that might work even better.

[PurpleTentacle]

No problem! I sometimes write in a harsh-sounding way, and I hope no one takes it personally.

 

I like the FAQ post, but I think a few things should be made clearer. I understand that it points out that most information is taken from a previous Kickstarter update. I also see that it was posted by pcj. Is pcj on the development team? Perhaps his title or affiliation should be included somewhere in the post.

 

Here has been my confusion: I found this forum through a link on the "Two Guys" site. At first, I thought this was the official project discussion page. Then later I thought it was mostly just Space Quest fans posting, then I realized that some people were actually working on the game.

 

I literally know no one here personally, so when people starting throwing out first names sometimes I don't know whom they mean. (I think, "Gareth, wait, what, who?") I have done literally all of my posting from my tiny 4-inch iPhone, which doesn't always lend itself to opening up multiple windows or researching this person or that person. Anyway, all I'm saying is that maybe certain people's affiliations or involvements could be made clearer.

 

People could link to that FAQ sticky whenever they see someone (on here or using Kickstarter or some other forum or social media site) unclear about the status of the project. And I like how it links directly to a Kickstarter post... maybe, in part, as a way to say, "hint, hint, this is where you can find more updates with even more info about the latest developments."

 

I would just maybe consider making sure that people know that the FAQ post is an official statement of some sort and not just some random person's summary of an official update available elsewhere.

I usually look at this forum using the defaul "mobile" view, which doesn't list titles under the screen names. I just switched to "full" view and saw that pcj has "site admin" under his name. See, I didn't know this. Maybe this info (or his official title in this project) could be included in the text of the post.

 

Some people I got to pledge for this Kickstarter are just people I've known for a while who used to love SQ games and were interested to play another like them... but I'm fairly certain they had not been involved with the fan community for the series ever or even knew one existed. In conclusion, just remember that not everyone is as tuned in as the regulars here.

 

Update: I just saw that "programmer" was listed by pcj's name! It doesn't show this in the mobile version!! I don't know who I'm talking to on here half the time. Whoops! Anyway, I definitely think this info should be in the actual post's text, so that people on phones and other mobile devices wouldn't be confused like I was. Basically, I've always come on here and just yelled out my question or point and figured that there would be some SQ or SpaceVenture expert here who would know the answer or had connections to someone on the team and could find out.

[pcj]

I think we should probably look at adding those fields to the mobile view somehow instead of adding them to the post. But otherwise good points.

[pcj]

Okay, added the appropriate fields to the mobile view. Let me know how that looks. (Looks fine on my phone but it is rather large so it's hard to know how it will show on smaller devices.)

[MusicallyInspired]

I like the FAQ post, but I think a few things should be made clearer. I understand that it points out that most information is taken from a previous Kickstarter update. I also see that it was posted by pcj. Is pcj on the development team?

ahem...from one of my earlier posts above:

 

As far as what this commumity is, this is the SpaceQuest.net fan community forum. We designated a small area to the Two Guys project at Chris's request which we were only too happy to provide. None of us are team members or know anything more about the project than any other backer (with the willingness to read every update) except for Pcj who was an intern but is now one of the lead programmers I think? And Troels who is an intern still. Everyone else is just a fan and backer, myself included.

[Dat Engineer]

I do feel like this project is being applied a rather exorbitant level of scrutiny. Most projects remain in development for years. Even for most of the big-budget titles, nobody is ever really aware when a game goes into initial development. For this one, people were there right from the beginning.