I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more... updates?

[Happy Cock Head]

The thing is though, It's a Kick starter and anyone who contributed any amount is deserved project knowledge that exceeds the knowledge of a non-backer no matter how large the knowledge gap may be. Regardless, I really posted this originally to try and scrounge up some sort of insider update. Which, again, Thanks to Frede and PCJ for their contributions and willingness to dispatch ANY news be it large or small. I personally found the bullet PCJ mentioned about Scotts Mother to be unexpected and a bit humanizing to say the least. It certainly reminded me that their is obviously a lot more happening then just us fan boys getting our grubby, grimy hands on Space Venture. The in depth analysis on updates subsequently seems to be nothing more than circular reasoning and I don't find the purpose in discussing it... But I could be wrong.

 

HCH

[MusicallyInspired]

What is the actual consequence?

 

There isn't one. The Two Guys don't have to show anyone any "proof" or sway anyone's opinion.

The kickstarter already got the money. I would agree with you guys if they were still trying to get the kickstarter funded,

but at this point there is no bargaining power on the side of the commenters.

Totally agree. Avoiding people breathing down their necks is the whole reason developers go to Kickstarter instead of a publisher. So people will stop checking the game for updates? Fine. People need to get on with their lives anyway. It's less stress on both backer and developer. Then when the game comes out they haven't been waiting for it and it's a pleasant surprise. Then all the naysayers will be right back in line to get their backer rewards. I mean realistically we don't get crazy updates on everything when a game is developed outside of Kickstarter, unless the developer wants to do something nice. Kickstarter backers have this false sense of entitlement sometimes. It's a huge detriment to Kickstarter campaigns.

[MusicallyInspired]

@HCH That's what I mean, though. Why are backers deserved project knowledge of any kind? It was never promised that there would (or should) be any updates. It's that sense of entitlement I don't get. Where did that come from?

 

I think asking for an update is ok but expecting one is entirely different.

[Happy Cock Head]

@MusicallyInspired - Personally I think if you really ponder about it, the entitlement comes from the exchanging of monies. If this were say a charity then I can see how it would be extremely easy to make your donation and turn a blind eye to the dispersal of funds. In this case, good sir, we are talking about a business venture and for that reason alone I think it anchors an on going yearning for process growth and project updates. We WANT to see the Two Guys succeed with this game, it's almost the instinctual duty of the Backer to induce pressure upon the group of people they have endorsed. 

 

HCH

[tomimt]

Of course backers are entitled to know where the project is at. That's one of the bargains in any KS, that they're kept in loop on the general level about how the project is progressing. That doesn't mean any bank statement break downs, but it does mean reassuring the masses a couple of times during the development that everything is going okay, especially now that everyone knows this project will come out much later than originally expected.  Besides well done communication, something SV at the moment is lacking, enhances the feeling that the project is going well and hasn't been abandoned.

At this moment Troels is the only person attatched to the projet who has done good job at communication in the KS forums. And overall I'd say it would be a good idea to give him the PR run.

[Happy Cock Head]

@tomimt - Here Here, I second Troels taking on a larger SV PR role!

 

HCH

[Frede]

Not to be snarky, but it really would be better. I mean, at this point, you're not going to convince anyone who thinks this project has gone down the shitter with mere words and all it's going to accomplish is that everyone thinks of the SQ community as deluded fanboiz.

 

It really is entirely up to the two guys and the Pope to prove to everyone just how wrong they are. And it's going to take some solid proof at this point, either by releasing the game, or by providing an update that shows the progress that's been made made instead of telling about it.

Meh, they're not even gonna convince some of these people by releasing a meatier update. The last update had a lot of new material in it, and look where we are now. Yet again. I personally do not want my SpaceVenture experience spoiled because of a bunch of people who can't wait a bit longer.

 

I fully understand why these people are frustrated and impatient, but I just don't see why this should be brought up all the time. There's nothing to be gained. Fine, you're angry. Sue them or ask for a refund and get down from the fucking soapbox already.

 

And I think Chris Pope is doing is a fine job, though a dedicated PR person would be probably for the better, if only because he's juggling quite a bunch of roles now. Producer/PR manager must have been difficult to begin with. Try producer/PR manager/assistant developer on for size. I can see why he'd choose to prioritise the more functional roles, rather than his PR role.

[MusicallyInspired]

I accept that it's instinctual to want updates on how the project is going that you've backed, and even fair. But I don't accept that it's deserved. I'd question any campaign that didn't offer ANY updates whatsoever, but I wouldn't question their honesty or competence. Just their decency. Even AAA published games show a little bit every now and then. But not because they have to.

 

Kickstarter IS charity. You are given no guarantee of anything but the fact that you're giving the creator of the campaign the chance to finish his/her/their project. Whether they do or not is entirely inconsequential to your "role" as a backer.

[Happy Cock Head]

@MusicallyInspired - I'll accept that you don't think Backers deserve Updates. Fair enough. I still disagree on your point that of KS being a charity. Now be it, if the money is designated for those in NEED, then yes it's a charity. Space Venture is a WANT in my book. There's no starving children here.

 

HCH

[MusicallyInspired]

Well, no you're right. It may not be a need I didn't mean that, but it's not tied to responsibility either, in the same way that those who give to charity shouldn't expect anything. The only difference in this case is that you expect (or hope) that the game will be released someday. As far as pledging goes, nobody is owed anything but seeing the product released, and any rewards they may have pledged for. Even then, there's no guarantee and nothing is admissable in court.

[suejak]

It's funny, because I've never been worried about the project once.

 

I guess that's what happens when you have better things to do than post angsty comments on the Kickstarter page.

 

It's pretty obvious that all these comeback-kids didn't really know what they were getting into. The Coles and the Guys are obviously not the best project- and money-managers. Their projects are obviously not going to plan, and they obviously don't really have a really clear or professional plan.

 

Whatever. Unless you mortgaged your house and wife and testicles on this, I think was worth the risk. Worst thing you might have done is give another chance at glory to the people who gave you so much fun as a kid. Not such a bad way to spend some leftover cash.

[Dat Engineer]

It's pretty obvious that all these comeback-kids didn't really know what they were getting into. The Coles and the Guys are obviously not the best project- and money-managers. Their projects are obviously not going to plan, and they obviously don't really have a really clear or professional plan.

 

Is it that obvious though? Every project, 99.9% of the time, runs into unforeseen circumstances. That's hardly a reflection of the professional caliber behind the project.

[Happy Cock Head]

@MusicallyInspired - Although there is no legal obligations to fulfill anything to any Backers, besides said game, still therein lies a moral responsibility on the beneficiary's end to make good on the Backers. Whether or not they deliver on that is a matter of moral compass or strategic design. My guess is they are just hustling to finish Space Venture, which is okay. At the same time I would hope that they don't forget to "tip the lady". Are we done here?

 

HCH

[MusicallyInspired]

I think we basically agree, we're just caught up on semantics. Peace.

 

@suejak & Engineer

Word.

[tomimt]

Actually KS rules state that it isn't a charity.  It's not a promise of a finished product either, as KS does understand that shit happens, but they also do state that the creator is obligated to do what he suggested or if that is not possible then find an another agreeable solution with the backers. Also the promised rewards should be delivererd as well.

Though those all are just words, as KS as such doesn't seem to have any intentions on going in one way or an another with the projects that actually do fail to deliver and where the creators just fanish underground (not talking about SV here, there are projects in which the creators just stop updating all together after they hit a brick wall and to my knowledge KS hasn't been any help to the backers)

[pcj]

they also do state that the creator is obligated to do what he suggested or if that is not possible then find an another agreeable solution with the backers

To be fair, that clause was added after SpaceVenture was successfully funded (I think this year, even). Most backers will hold the projects they back accountable regardless.

[suejak]

 

At the same time I would hope that they don't forget to "tip the lady". Are we done here?

 

HCH

 

Tip the lady?? Like tip the cow??

[Happy Cock Head]

@suejak - ..................Sure, yes... you got it... If you can't figure this out either, I'm being SARCASTIC. Your only saving grace here is that you hail from somewhere in which "tipping" your waiter or waitress is not the social convention. If this is not the case, you may undoubtedly be a bit of a mouth-breather.

 

HCH

[Troels Pleimert]

@tomimt - Here Here, I second Troels taking on a larger SV PR role!

 

HCH

Thanks, guys. I would love to be able to keep you more in the loop. I've been privileged to see some of the work-in-progress stuff and been allowed to play internal builds of the game to give feedback from a "game player" perspective. But I also have to respect the Two Guys' wishes not to let anything out into the open that they don't want to show yet.

 

Would I do things differently if this was my own Kickstarted game? It's too easy to say yes, because there's a lot of work that goes into a thing like this, and I completely understand that the Guys just want to bunker down and get this thing done as soon as possible, and not spend any (for lack of a better word) extraneous time coming up with clever updates and tidbits. I would love to see more stuff released to the public and I totally understand the sentiment from the disgruntled backers.

 

But this isn't my Kickstarter. I'm just a fan like you guys. A fan with some added privileges, sure, but a fan first and foremost. I'm a cheerleader and I may seem overly optimistic at times, but this is not because I get to play with the big dogs or because I'm getting some sort of kickback. 'Cos I'm not. I'm really just super-psyched for the game. And because I get to actually talk with the dudes who are making it, my confidence in their ability and the game they're putting out remains unwavered.

[drdrslashvohaul]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd love to know what you guys think happens if these handful of commenters on the kickstarter page don't get their 

updates and their "proof". What is the actual consequence?

 

There is difference between what they are legally obliged to provide, and what, morally, would be "good cricket, dear boy". I'm not saying they are obliged to give updates. I'm simply saying many people have a reasonable expectation of it, and that it might be a good idea to continue to keep people in the loop.

 

We're not necessarily entitled to what we expect, of course. 

[MusicallyInspired]

A fair point, I just think that once the game comes out everyone will forget their misgivings about the lack of updates.

[Frede]

If the game is good, obviously. But, yes. I agree that the release of the game itself will lead to a well-needed focus shift.

[JimmyTwoBucks]

"The game sucked, but man, those updates... those updates. Wow. They were of the likes we'll never see again."

 

"The game is the best I've ever played, but the lack of updates 6 months ago ruined the game for me completely."

 

 

^^ Two things no one will ever say.

[suejak]

To the extent that Double Fine's documentary episodes can be considered updates, I think it's a good example of a Kickstarter that will probably be remembered for the updates more than for the actual game (which is nothing special so far). ;)

[drdrslashvohaul]

"The game sucked, but man, those updates... those updates. Wow. They were of the likes we'll never see again."

 

"The game is the best I've ever played, but the lack of updates 6 months ago ruined the game for me completely."

 

 

^^ Two things no one will ever say.

In fairness, that isn't the point.

 

Of course it isn't the be-all-and-end-all. It's just a question of manners, more than anything else. As I also said previously, I'm not bothered per se by the lack of updates, because I'm kept in the loop through other means. All I'm saying is it would be nice, and perhaps it would help to ease some of the tension, if there were a few more updates.

 

It isn't essential. And, yes, one the game has been released it probably won't matter. However, it would be nice, especially after having promised a new update schedule, if there were a few more.

 

That's all. There's no legal obligation to hold doors open for people, but I still do it. :p