Paul Trowe criticism on Kickstarter update

[Spikey]

The point is that things can be made well at Replay. Paul's not an idiot and the people there, Al, Josh, and the fans like you, Irishmile, were capable of quality output. As someone else said (Tom?), the problem is that Paul is not good at having power and being a spokesperson. Sadly Paul didn't heed his best employee's advice, Josh Mandel, who *countlessly* warned him against "dick moves" and tried to keep him in his box.

 

And anything would be better than the original Larry Casino game (aside from the cousin Larry games). What a crock!

[SteveHNo96]

The point is that things can be made well at Replay. Paul's not an idiot

I think the jury is still out on that one.

 

and the people there, Al, Josh, and the fans like you, Irishmile, were capable of quality output. As someone else said (Tom?), the problem is that Paul is not good at having power and being a spokesperson. Sadly Paul didn't heed his best employee's advice, Josh Mandel, who *countlessly* warned him against "dick moves" and tried to keep him in his box.

If Josh has left Replay Games, then that means the animal is uncaged and basically everything is going to be his way or the highway, which means that unless Larry 1 is flying off the shelves, you won't be seeing Larry 2 at all. It's simply a matter of this being too niche of a market.

 

And anything would be better than the original Larry Casino game (aside from the cousin Larry games). What a crock!

 

I'd agree on Box Office Bust. Magna Cum Laude had its flaws but it wasn't a bad game, just some things were criminal like the number of fart jokes in the game.

[MusicallyInspired]

Paul just must have not believed that he needed the community to succeed. What a wake up call this must have been. Or if he's still deluded enough to think otherwise, he'll find out soon enough. It's true, this really is too niche of a market and without community support to make it happen (and we could have made it happen) you're doomed to failure. You can't just treat your fanbase like crap and expect to make a profit or even break even if you're not a AAA developer.

[shoptroll]

And anything would be better than the original Larry Casino game (aside from the cousin Larry games). What a crock!

The original Larry Casino wasn't terrible for what it was. It's no adventure game but it did have a good selection of casino games and a number of options to tailor how each table worked. It's a shame the WON integration was really loose and completely jarring with how you'd have to bring up a seperate application to join a game.

 

The F2P game seems really cynical, but I'm not surprised Al is going along with it. Last time I checked his site there were a bunch of banner ads for online gambling sites. The man likes his Vegas :)

[soundchaser]

Let me add here my support for both Al and Josh -- I sent Al an email around the time of the Kickstarter's success, and he very quickly and graciously replied to me within a day. Josh, as well, was awesome. I won a "Steam Greenlight" contest from Replay, the prize for which was a voicemail from Josh; and he kindly recorded a shout-out podcast intro for an internet group I dig (Retsupurae, for those interested). I can't imagine dealing with more genuine guys. Shame about Paul, though.

[tomimt]

Paul just must have not believed that he needed the community to succeed. What a wake up call this must have been. Or if he's still deluded enough to think otherwise, he'll find out soon enough. It's true, this really is too niche of a market and without community support to make it happen (and we could have made it happen) you're doomed to failure. You can't just treat your fanbase like crap and expect to make a profit or even break even if you're not a AAA developer.

 

This is true, adventures are a definitive niche. I read somewhere that Deadelic has said for an example that none of their games have been huge monetary successes despite they have done a couple of well reviewed adventure games and propably are the most profilic adventure game company at the moment. On the other hand you can succeed in adventure games if you find an element from the mix that larger audience enjoys, which is something Telltale has done (though you can always argue if TT's games fit in the definition of AG's anymore) by refining their own AG experience towards heavy story telling, QTE and some light puzzle work.

[Vainamoinen]

It happened within a couple of days over at the Telltale Games forums recently as well. I never thought I'd see a forum I frequently visit just dwindle away so fast, and to have it happen not just once but twice in a matter of a few weeks is pretty amazing.

 

Your reports of Telltale's forum death are, as always, greatly exaggerated. ;)

 

I actually wish some subforums were a little less lively these days...

 

 

 

Yeah. My translation is a bit garbled, but the gist of it is there. There's no slander, no attack, just pure objective news. As it should be.

 

The adventure-treff news item is absolutely objective. That's why it's so short. I personally carried the news into their forum four days ago, and I certainly wasn't particularly objective.

 

 

 

I'm in favour of a petition or one single well-written letter signed by a number of fans. I'll probably relegate myself to the background of affairs as I think I'm spending way much time on TroweGate right now. It's becoming a bit too much and I want to gear down and take a deep breath. But I definitely support the initiative.

Indeed, that is the way to go. The reaction of the adventure game community has to be disimpassioned, and there has to be just one voice. There must not be any kind of mob mentality, there must not be any kind of outrage. I don't think the single 'I want to get banned for insults too' kind of posts in the replay forums serve any purpose. Of course, not only the two guys were attacked, but the community as well, and that's where it gets really hairy. But it just means time to shine with reason, dignity and profound sadness over last week's proceedings.

[PurpleTentacle]

I can't help but feel sad when I watch this video of Josh Mandel, the "third guy from andromeda," talk about how he got involved with Sierra, his design philosophy, his work on Space Quest, and how excited he was to be back with "the old gang" and how he was full of hope about what Replay Games could accomplish. Now, just over a year later, the hope has apparently turned to disappointment.

 

Video:

 

This better not be the end of Leisure Suit Larry. Even though Replay delivered, it all feels so anticlimactic. The somewhat flawed and unfinished-feeling (at times) remake, combined with all the animosity and bad blood created, make it seem like this was a missed opportunity to do something great for adventure gaming.

 

I hate the idea that Paul is the series' only possible savior. Surely someone else out there will be able to make something happen for Al and the series. I hope. Right?

[mendel]

LSL1R's success really depends on who you ask... Most of its reviews haven't been overly kind, and it's sitting at an average of about 50%.

 

If you'd ask Paul Trowe I'm sure he'd tell you they're running out of room to park the trucks full of money:

http://www.gamasutra...RY_RELOADED.php

 

Based on Al Lowe's comments here though it doesn't sound like it was an incredibly rousing success thus far:

http://www.polygon.c...play-poker-game

 

Well, the original LSL1 sold over 1 million units (and apparently the hint book sold even better), so selling 100,000 units today (to pull a number out of my hat) could be both indicative of a shrunk adventure market and a huge profit for Replay games at the same time. Actually, LSL1:R could be a huge success. We don't know.

 

I'm noting with wonder that the press release about licensing LSL1:R for retail quoted on gamasutra dates from October 9th, the same day Paul tried to shame the SpaceVenture project for running out of money and making changes to their development team - incidentally, types of events that have happened to Replay's Larry Reloaded as well. And it falls in the same week that sees the first LSL:R weekly Steam Sale.

 

Contrasting the polygon report about the casino game being a remake as well, as opposed to the new game Irishmile was producing concept art for, I think we can guess how that "shopping around for investors" or perhaps getting the License for an all-new game turned out.

 

If LSL1:R actually is a financial success, and Replay did acquire a wider license to make new Larry games, what would happen? Assuming Al Lowe was still on board with Replay, and staying out of the drama?

[tomimt]

That's the big question, is LSL:R a success or not? There's some conflicting info about it. Reportedly the game cost over 1 million to make, of which most came from KS and of the pot Codemaster get their cut as well, though how much, I don't know.

 

Some time ago Frogacuda said in the Adventuregamers forum that Trowe had said something about 250k sold units, but that was ages ago and I don't think there's any concrete proof about that. We only have estimations, but then again I think LSL:R did sell better on the recent Steam sale, as it was for a bit in the top 50 sellers. At Google Play store LSL:R has been installed 10 000-50 000 times, but that figure doesn't tell how many have actually purchaced it after trying it out and LSLR isn't that high in the GOG listings either when games are listed in order of sales.

 

All things considered I do think the game has made profit, but I don't think it has been the blockbuster Trowe or Al hoped it would have been. It might have been profitable enough to warrant the freemium casino game though just to keep the potential franchice in the public eye.

[Spikey]

I just don't think it's worth it for Al going forward to associate himself with Paul Trowe. As I wrote on the Replay forums, Al already has the money, he has the critical acclaim, the point of continuing with Larry is partially to continue that, but more for himself and to finalize his legacy. Paul Trowe is death by association, presumably one of the reasons Josh left, and why would Al want his name saddled to that oaf long-term. Sooner or later he'll need to break the chain, and then we'll really know where we're at.

 

I also think it's worth reiterating that Josh Mandel had a lot to do with the success, and quality of, LSL1:R. I would wager over 50% of the new text was written by him.

[Troels Pleimert]

I also think it's worth reiterating that Josh Mandel had a lot to do with the success, and quality of, LSL1:R. I would wager over 50% of the new text was written by him.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speculate it's WAY more than 50%. ;)

[Intendant S]

I heard from the horse's ass himself that the 250K units was how many keys he gave out to retailers. I have absolutely no idea on the number actually sold.

 

On a related note, I'm glad to have cut ties with him when I did. As Spikey said, Polyester Paul is death by association. I wouldn't care less if he was vindictive enough to pull my testing credits. I still want my star kept intact, though. I paid good money for it. I know Jeroen sent Al an e-mail and I plan on doing one myself. He needs to "break the chain" and pull free himself. I've got way too much respect for the ol' guy to see anything happen to his good name.

[Tom King]

Paul Trowe is death by association, presumably one of the reasons Josh left, and why would Al want his name saddled to that oaf long-term.

 

He needs to "break the chain" and pull free himself. I've got way too much respect for the ol' guy to see anything happen to his good name.

 

You guys nailed it.

[Dat Engineer]

Paul Trowe is death by association, presumably one of the reasons Josh left, and why would Al want his name saddled to that oaf long-term.

 

Would you say that he's a...

 

Trowe-jan horse?

 

(Sorry, I had to go there)

[flesk]

Your reports of Telltale's forum death are, as always, greatly exaggerated. ;)

 

I actually wish some subforums were a little less lively these days...

I think that's debatable. They replaced the forums with a "community" running on a new, mostly (intentionally) broken forum software. And more important, most of the old and most active forumites left. Sure there are some left, but as far as I can tell the place is being kept alive by a bunch of new people drawn there by their new game.

[Spikey]

He's done enough Trowe-lling for Sierra IP, that's for sure..

 

I'm done being serious on this topic. Time to either move on and focus on the 2Guys announcement, or look on the funny side of this. Only so many times we can rehash this story, I think the main exercise, getting kudos to the burned Replay volunteers and exposing Paul, is accomplished. Great job to all involved (except you-know-who).

[Fronzel Neekburm]

Would you say that he's a...

 

Trowe-jan horse?

 

(Sorry, I had to go there)

 

Surely, this aPAULing behaviour can't be AlLowed!

 

(Sorry, had to go there as well)

[Intendant S]

I wrote this little thing up in support on my Facebook page. Thought I'd leave it here:

[SteveHNo96]

I wrote this little thing up in support on my Facebook page. Thought I'd leave it here: https://www.facebook...536888183058554

 

You handled that really well, Serena. Props to you. By the way, not only does Paul look like Leisure Suit Larry but he's way more inept than him too. (go ahead Paul. I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. You try to kick me in the nuts and you'll see what happens).

 

The last ten days have reminded me that we as a community do need to stay together and tough through all of this. We know and love games together (LSL, SQ, PQ, KQ, etc.) and we all want to see these adventures succeed. The problem is when people who are bitter, vindictive and cruel (like Paul) let the power go to their heads. I will not respect any man who would be so petty, so trite, so banal and hoary as Paul to stop us from making the games and supporting the people who make them great just because he thinks he can do it and anyone who disagrees with him is automatically a loser.

 

We should pull Paul like a rotten tooth and replace him with the permanent dental implants, people like Jeroen or Tom, who not only have a clear direction for the games but a passion for making them as good as they can. That doesn't mean we should pull people like Al, Josh, Scott or Mark. They are all good solid characters who still want to make games for people who remember Sierra's heyday.

 

Anyways, back to SQ and SV. :)

[Frede]

Surely, this aPAULing behaviour can't be AlLowed!

 

(Sorry, had to go there as well)

 

I guess he's finally learned a lesson about Josh-tice.

 

Yeah, okay, I'll show myself out.

[Mvalnor]

Registered just to add that this is major asshattery and I wont forget or let it go.

 

Treat fans like shit? BAD. Treat other people in the same business like shit? BAD.

Treat someone who is both a friend and a dedicated fan like shit? Ultrabad.

 

I will be way more caucios as to what I back in the future so my money wont come near things like this. (if you are looking for games to remake please consider Indiana Jones and the fate of the Atlantis or Arcanum)

 

[PurpleTentacle]

I don't know about the previous comment. Are people posting on Steam about this? Don't like that. I would hate to hurt the sales of this game. This was a labor of love by so many people. Encouraging people not to buy the game would probably hurt Al and the future of the series. Does N-Fusion deserve this?

 

I think we should be careful not to campaign against the wrong things, because then we'd be no better than Paul.

 

What Paul did (ban a bunch of people unnecessarily from the forum and trash another project) was inappropriate and rude, but it's not like he killed someone.

 

We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to harm the game sales. I wouldn't be surprised if concern for the game and wanting it to succeed is one reason why Mandel has kept quiet.

 

For all Paul's faults and quirks, he still seems like a hardworking and passionate guy. Let's not get carried away or pile on too much. And no one's perfect.

 

I want the game to be a huge success. If that means obnoxious Paul gets kudos and cash, then that doesn't bother me. He does deserve a lot of credit.

 

The game is getting its big retail rollout in a few days.

 

I would hope most of us could put aside our bruised egos and annoyances with Paull and root on Larry and wish the game the best!

 

At some point the backlash can be excessive. For example, I saw the official Himalaya twitter account even comment on this, and that sort of disappointed me since they are usually so professional and I wished they had just stayed neutral and not commented.

[mendel]

I don't know about the previous comment. Are people posting on Steam about this? Don't like that.

I posted a balancing comment.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/231910/discussions/0/792923684205322551/

[Frede]

It has been suggested before that people alert other games to this whole situation on Steam, but I, too, agree that it may be going overboard. Well, I don't have a problem with it if it's not an organised effort; Mvalnor is simply linking to information that is publicly available and who am I to prevent gamers from boycotting it on their own? I certainly don't intend to buy it - I'll just have to show my support for Al and Josh some other way.

 

But generally, I rest my case; let's focus on SpaceVenture positivity and leave the actual petitioning/letter-writing to the people who got burnt. Speaking of SpaceVenture... who's looking forward to hearing how things are really going? :D