Paul Trowe criticism on Kickstarter update

[Aberdorf]

I wouldn't worry about Josh not knowing what's going on.

 

He logged in on the Replay forums yesterday so he's certainly aware of Paul's idiocity.

[Spikey]

Josh left I'm sure in no small part due to Paul's "idiocity", so no worries there.

 

Just on that, that's a pretty big shift- coming on as CCO, then quitting 6 months later.. There's a story there too. Although, it probably ends like we already know, Paul's an obsequious troll who doesn't deserve the talents of Josho.

[nockgeneer]

Haha, I know, I know. It's all hugs, kisses and death metal.

 

 

Bt

 

But mostly death. Hilarious horrible death. Over and over until you get it right.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

I'm a bit hesitant to send that mail to Josh. I don't want him to feel pressured to take a stand in this and if the disappearance of his fb profile is any indication, the man might value some privacy.

 

With the update coming soon for Larry Reloaded can you imagine if he took out names from the credits or names from the Kickstarter easter egg in the game that he banned from the forums? Sheesh!

 

Hah! Like I care! The retail version has been out for months (in Europe at least) and for all I know, my name is in it. Twice. Of all the damage that's been done in the last few days, this is one of the things I least worry about. And if you paid money to get your name in there, Replay is, I would assume, liable to keep it in.

[DrJ]

In regards to Josh - I have truly enjoyed working with him. He's an amazing guy, very talented. I'm not speaking to his status with Replay as I feel this is something he needs to share if he feels the need to. At this point as stated by others, it seems most of the reputation of Replay is in shambles and a lot of people left. Other people involved (Al, Britton) are more than likely not happy with the state of affairs.

 

And while it's great that all this information is being shared & gathered here on this board, I do agree with Quirk & bootyboi that it would be important to speak out to CodeMasters so that they are aware of that's going on.

 

I already emailed Codemasters before reading that and will also drop Al an email. I know most people are saying to take the moral high road but if Paul wants to try to derail SpaceVenture then I do not see why he should not get a taste of his own medicine. What goes around comes around I say.

 

Last thing anyone would need is the license to go to someone that lost all support & respect of the adventure game community as it would totally kill the franchise from being revived. Even if you are not a big Larry fan, it would be a bad sign for the adventure game genre.

[Dat Engineer]

I think it's in our best interests to deal with this matter positively, as suggested above, by expressing our appreciation for the 2GFA and for other adventure game designers. Then, we have to move on from this as quickly as possible. The last thing we need is to drag this out to extra innings by pursuing a vendetta against Paul Trowe. No matter how much we might revile him, as DrJ said, the adventure game community has struggled for long enough to gain traction again, and we do not need any further drama to take the stage.

[Frede]

Yeah, I can understand if those of you who have been screwed over Trowe wish to contact Codemasters, but that's something you have to do separately from the SpaceVenture promotional effort. As passioned as I am about adventure game developers not being dicks, I didn't back the Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded Kickstarter. It'd be wrong for me to contact Codemasters because it'd seem like I'm only in it for the mischief and ultimately, it may reflect negatively upon Guys From Andromeda and the fan projects I have been involved in. And I don't want that to happen.

 

So, by all means, I think you should organise yourselves. Intendant S, DrJ, cavefish, Fronzel Neekburm, Irishmile, etc. Everyone who got the short end of the stick and want to see their beloved Larry in more capable hands. But for a lot of SpaceVenture fans, the discussion probably ends here as it'd just have too dire consequences if we followed you down that road. Those of us need to find the positivity and prepare ourselves mentally for GFA's October 16 update.

[Rudy]

Ken has not cut any sort of deal with Paul about King's Quest and at no point has he considered doing so.

 

Indeed he hasn't. When I met Ken and Roberta a few months ago, they not even once mentionned Paul. They did talk about Larry Reloaded though, but only Al was mentioned. Ken also played the Space Venture demo by the way, which he enjoyed. He was particularly pleased with the graphics, though adding that the mechanics could use some improvement, so eat that, Mr. Trowe.

[Tom King]

I think DrJ was saying the exact opposite of that, aside from our appreciation for designers like Josh, Al, Scott, et al. We all love those guys and I'm glad to see that expressed here, but I'm not sure everyone understands the position Paul is in.

 

Paul DOES NOT own the rights to Leisure Suit Larry. The only reason he was able to do a Larry game was because he knows people. Paul has passion, there's no doubt about that, but he's made it clear he cannot handle the amount of power he was given. This isn't just a slip up, it's a personality trait. We would be doing the franchise and the people who worked hard on this game (designers, developers, volunteers like myself, even Kickstarters) a disservice to give Paul the opportunity to be put in the same position twice. We've fought way too hard to bring this games back and to give up now, waiting and hoping that the next Kickstarter to be a success, would be a damn shame.

 

That said, I urge everyone to contact the powers that be: Codemasters. Be polite, but be sure to let them know where the real problem lies. If they don't want to do another Larry because of disappointing sales, that's their business and I don't fault them for that. But it's entirely possible they don't know Paul has alienated the entire community and the franchise would be better off in more caring hands.

 

Like it or not, we're a small community. When one adventure game dies, it has negative impact everywhere. SpaceVenture, Space Quest, and other IP's are certainly no exception.

[DrJ]

Yeah, I can understand if those of you who have been screwed over Trowe wish to contact Codemasters, but that's something you have to do separately from the SpaceVenture promotional effort. As passioned as I am about adventure game developers not being dicks, I didn't back the Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded Kickstarter. It'd be wrong for me to contact Codemasters because it'd seem like I'm only in it for the mischief and ultimately, it may reflect negatively upon Guys From Andromeda and the fan projects I have been involved in. And I don't want that to happen.

 

So, by all means, I think you should organise yourselves. Intendant S, DrJ, cavefish, Fronzel Neekburm, Irishmile, etc. Everyone who got the short end of the stick and want to see their beloved Larry in more capable hands. But for a lot of SpaceVenture fans, the discussion probably ends here as it'd just have too dire consequences if we followed you down that road. Those of us need to find the positivity and prepare ourselves mentally for GFA's October 16 update.

 

It really isn't about feeling screwed over, it's sad the way Paul reacted to all of this, but I'm still happy I was involved with everyone else during this project. It's more about the adventure game community being 1 big front (as everyone showed over the last week). We all gathered behind the SV project as we couldnt sit back and let someone tarnish the hard work they are putting into this. As everyone has stated before, we will block any attempt coming from Mr Trowe for another adventure game. So if we are all trying to bring this genre back and are this big front, it cant hurt to contact CodeMasters to let them know how we all feel, regardless if you're a SQ/PQ/KQ/GK/QfG or Larry fan. I think we all want this genre to succeed in this gaming market. That's the main reason I stopped my involvement with Replay Games. I didnt want to sit by and let someone hurt the community.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that together we can make a stand. Just like we all did when Paul posted on KS. Lets at least contact CodeMasters to let them know how we as an adventure game community feel about Paul's involvement. It's not about Larry, it's about adventure games in general.

[Frede]

Maybe if we do a joint letter. I think mail bombing them is a bit extreme. But you will have my signature in a petition or in a letter for sure.

[tomimt]

I do agree, carpet bombing a company with lots of mail is not a best approach with this. Perhaps a well written and articulated petition etc. would be the best way to handle this matter.

[Frede]

Spoke to Jeroen about this. I'm in favour of a petition or one single well-written letter signed by a number of fans. I'll probably relegate myself to the background of affairs as I think I'm spending way much time on TroweGate right now. It's becoming a bit too much and I want to gear down and take a deep breath. But I definitely support the initiative.

[Tom King]

Completely understand and don't blame you for taking a breather. Thank you for your ongoing support!

[Troels Pleimert]

I think Fred is absolutely right about the SpaceVenture crowd getting off the Trowe-train at this juncture and concentrating on looking forward. You have my signature for a joint letter, however.

[Intendant S]

I was talking with Tom earlier about the petition and I'm behind it 100%.

[flesk]

I would sign something like that too. Codemasters isn't bigger than that a petition just might get the attention of the higher ups. And maybe it will be enough that they'll at least reconsider their deal with Replay.

[BigD]

Count me in for a signature too. I'd love to see a new Larry game (I'm okay without remaking any more even if LSL2 was a "bit" (that means a WHOLE lot) buggy.

[SteveHNo96]

Make the petition and I'll sign it.

 

By the way (this will probably be my last post about this matter, I'd like to talk about SQ), if you trot over to Mr. Trowe's forums, you'll find the number of posts are currently 6,281. Last week it was over 8,500. So all the people he banned accounted for over a quarter of all the posts. Talk about a real class act.

[Fronzel Neekburm]

I agree with the idea for a petition. Our mails to Codemasters would probably have been dismissed anyway as a handful of fans venting their anger over getting thrown out of a forum. They probably get mails like that all the time. A petition would give us the opportunity to truly stand together in this, make people realise who was involved, why this is such a great deal and get noticed.

[PurpleTentacle]

That said, I urge everyone to contact the powers that be: Codemasters. Be polite, but be sure to let them know where the real problem lies. If they don't want to do another Larry because of disappointing sales, that's their business and I don't fault them for that.

Do you or Jeroen or anyone else here know how LSL:R has been selling? How much has it made? Number of copies sold? Was the feeling that it had already been a success, or were people disappointed?

 

One of the reasons I backed the project was so that it would hopefully lead to an all-new Larry game. This is still a big concern of mine, as I love the series.

 

I hope Paul's alienating behavior hasn't made a new Larry game less likely to happen.

[CmdrFalcon]

LSL1R's success really depends on who you ask... Most of its reviews haven't been overly kind, and it's sitting at an average of about 50%.

 

If you'd ask Paul Trowe I'm sure he'd tell you they're running out of room to park the trucks full of money:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/202000/REPLAY_GAMES_GIVES_UP_ALLOWS_RETAILERS_TO_SELL_LEISURE_SUITLARRY_RELOADED.php

 

Based on Al Lowe's comments here though it doesn't sound like it was an incredibly rousing success thus far:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/22/4647432/leisure-suit-larry-series-continues-with-free-to-play-poker-game

[Irishmile]

Here is a fun fact... I was supposed to do concept art for that Casino game for the shopping around for investor stages... I'm sure but not positive that Tom was probably also asked to contribute... I did a mock menu and some really rough mock ups.. but that is all I did.. MONTHS ago.

 

I have NO clue if they got some other artists involved since.. but I had not heard any more about it for a long time... I can not comment if its happening still because I just don't know.. but I can tell you I personally am no longer involved or even WISH to be.. even FOR an art credit.

 

For those wondering it was going to be an all NEW game.. not a remake of the previous Larry Casino game... some of the ideas kicked around in the really early stages did sound sort of fun to be fair.

[CmdrFalcon]

It'll be interesting to see where it goes from here (if anywhere)...

[PurpleTentacle]

Irishmile, when did the situation seem to turn sour? Were things better last fall?

 

I believe at one point Al was talking to the press very optimistically about LSL2:R, even, I think, giving a tentative release time frame. I believe he even confirmed that pre-production had begun on it. Then there came a time when it seemed no one wanted to talk about the next adventure game. In more recent interviews Paul and Al seem to dodge questions about a potential follow-up adventure and bring the topic back to the free casino game. Do you think this change is more about possible disappointing sales figures or about Al/Josh maybe having second thoughts about staying associated with Trowe (I don't know their feelings since neither has commented)?